General Motors to close Holden

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by rbaggio, Dec 5, 2013.

  1. Tacrezod

    Tacrezod Member

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    Here's the judgement.

    http://www.judgments.fedcourt.gov.au/judgments/Judgments/fca/single/2013/2013fca1351

    Paragraph 16 lists the changes that Toyota wanted in order to "reduce Toyota's costs and increase their global competitiveness".

    If it means the difference between sucess and failure of Toyota in Aus, I don't think there's anything unreasonable in there.
     
  2. AngloSaxon

    AngloSaxon Active Member

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    I brought up Japan as they indeed were not colonised either, neither were Korea, Tibet, Mongolia (by the West anyway). Nepal and Bhutan were officially colonies but British reach didn't physically extend to them very easily.

    Japan before the US fleet forced Japan to open up to trade, Japan was a xenophobic culture, closed to outsiders. You went there, roundeyes, and you were killed. Trade was the 2nd part of the US demands. The 1st demand was for Japan to stop executing shipwrecked foreign sailors. A few problems with executing people just because they are foreigners. The US didn't go on to control Japan, Japan went on to analyse itself, and go on to emulate the best parts of modern industry, law, commerce and military structure. In emulating the best Britain and Prussia had to offer they voluntarilly did away with the largely superceded medieval Samurai class. No one forced them to that, they did that themselves. And in doing so they went from a relatively iron and energy poor country to a place that could import those things from wherever they wanted.

    WW1 - Japan was on our side, did you know. They didn't really take much of an active role beyond protecting Pacific sea lanes.

    WW2 - Please explain how they as an aggressor seeking more resources and territory at the expense of all the cultures around them, which started in 1932 with their invasion of China, is the fault of anyone else? The way they treated native Philipinos, Burmese, Javanese was shocking. I've seen revisionist history documentaries blaming the Poms and Yanks for Japan's actions in the 1940s, it's all rather spurious. The atom bombs, well documented that to end the war without them a US invasion would have resulted in 1 million US casualties alone. The Imperial government planned to send the civilian Japanese onto the beaches and out of every town to meet the US Army with knives and clubs while the Imperial army dug into the mountains, Iwo Jima style. The total projected casualty list was horrendous. 2 bombs demonstrated to the Emperor and the Japanese people what would happen to the entire nation if they forced a conventional end to the war.

    And after the war, when they returned to paying for the resources of their neighbours, they thrived. You name things like Nintendos, they invented and perfected them, countless products and industrial innovations in Japanese mass production techniques outperformed the rest of the world. Would you prefer that they revert to the pre-Western contact state of a poor people suffering energy deficiency but culturally believing they were the supreme people of Earth?

    Anyway, we're off topic, sorry everyone interested in Holden.
     
  3. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    The below rant is from the one of the top marketing guy from Toyota, taken from a hotrod forum
    I doubt none members can read it ,

    I have to agree with carps :D

    http://www.ozrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56438

    Had not the government of the day, put up the money, General Motors would not have bothered creating the Holden.

    How do you guys think the government paid for your educations?

    How do you think the government pays for the infrastructure we all enjoy?

    How do you think the government will pay your pensions when you get older and have no money left?

    How do you think we get to have one of the best medical systems in the world?

    Who do you think subsidises our Aussie lifestyle, which is the envy of the world?

    We are all subsidised by the bloody government! All day every day, regardless if we think it or not!
    And if you think the paltry ammount you pay as income tax or GST etc. covers everything the government provides you, maybe you need to go back to one of those government funded schools and learn how things really work.

    When there are no jobs left, and your customers are all unemployed and so broke they have to stop spending money on the goods or services you provide, how will you put food on the table?

    Mining won't support us and whilst the moiney might be good for the few who get a job digging stuff out of the ground, it doesn't take a lot of people to do it and when it's gone it's gone forever, but hey, at least we'll have a nice big hole in the middle of our Island.

    I'd much rather the government used a little of my tax money to create jobs and keep people gainfully employed, than tax me three times as much because there's no jobs left and they have to feed and house the population. Can't speak for 'em all, but for every $1 my employer has had from the government, they've invested another $20 back into the local economy and generated many times more in taxes etc. from the products twe make.

    There's probably more than a few folks here going to suffer as a result of what's transpired in recent times and a few more will survve because of the wealth they generated working for those 'filthy corporate giants' who can no longer justify the cost of manufacturing their goods here ion Australia.

    Yeah, I know I wasn't going to comment, but sometimes some of the views expressed are so amazing or poorly informed it's hard not to.

    Some also confirm that we really have become an nation of greedy and sefish bastards who don't give a stuff about the welfare of our fellow Australians so long as we're OK.
     
  4. southerncross

    southerncross Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yeah I wasn't going to comment either but.

    So a childcare worker who looks after our kids get's a measly $30,000 PA , but a union employed "manufacturer" who does basically the same thing day in day out gets a cool $100,000 ++ for using an airgun to tighten bolts and screw's with generous hours and leave entitlements, not to mention the payout they will receive after the next three years of being able to line up another job while still getting a top grade pay for glorified bolt tighteners ?

    Sure recently there was a move to increase the wages of those childcare workers, you know the ones who actually provide care for a generation of young Aussies, but that rise in wages was , if you look at the fine print quarantined from those who were not members of a said union, and only really applied to those who worked for a said union backed company.

    No mention of the average $15 a week paid to the Union by each worker who is also already subsidised at the rate on average of $50.000 a year for each worker by the Aussie taxpayer at holden .

    Ever watched a docco on the ex Great city of Detroit in America and what happened there due to Unions running up the cost of labour to the point that it became uneconomical for the manufacturing company to operate there ?

    What does an average mechanic reap an hour working for someone else ? Are all of these Holden workers qualified mechanics ? Would they have half the check's and balances or needed qualifications a childcare worker needs to have to look after a little kid in a day care centre ?

    Ah subsidy's huh

    We subsidised Leyland and they left.
    We subsidised Kodak and they left.
    We subsidised Chrysler and they left.
    We subsidised Ford and they are leaving.
    We subsidised Holden and they are leaving.

    I guess no-one remembers that just last year labor were all full of pride about how they had ensured Holden would be manufacturing here for the next decade due to a $275 million handout ?

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...ive-us-to-penury/story-fni0ffxg-1226780985249

    Just where do you think that money came from ? so now just a year later they want more, what about next year or the year after ?

    Even a member here like The End will give evidence as to the work standards of the staff at Holden in Australia.

    The Union rep's themselves are even more telling. Not so sure if he deserves an award or not from that acting but do check out the slip at 1 minute in when he slips up and nearly screws his whole slag of the the current Gov't by nearly admitting that the Gov't knew about this for 11 months or more. Not to mention the total character change with help from a patient press as he get's his thoughts in order after such an emotional start... Oh you weren't supposed to see the pre news release

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYQ6SRb5iU8[/youtube]

    Meanwhile

    http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=320903&CategoryId=14090

    Face it, the workers priced themselves out of a job and the successive governments let them while increasing every other cost they had thanks to squeaky environmental wheels, meanwhile childcare still cost's a fortune and those on the front line still receive's a paltry wage far below that of a bolt tightener.
     
  5. scone

    scone Active Member Silver Stacker

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    without Holdens and Fords to fix all the time I wonder what all the Housos will do with their spare time.
    Its certainly going to change the face of racing
     
  6. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    OMG. Could he be any more pathetic?
    He is crying because the loss of membership means his Xmas party budget just got slashed.
     
  7. TheEnd

    TheEnd Well-Known Member

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    I still believe in unions only for the job security part of being a member...but after hearing that some of these Holden employees will be getting 300-500k redundency payouts i am disgusted........ Most people have to work until they're at least 65 if not longer these days and all they will have when they retire is their superannuation!
     
  8. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    :lol:

    http://www.news.com.au/national/the...be-made-in-china/story-fncynjr2-1226783057648
     
  9. Caput Lupinum

    Caput Lupinum Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I look foward to seeing the new Chinese Holdan Comodoor
     
  10. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That should read Commie-door. ;)
     
  11. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

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    Classic Australian car made in China... Jesus :/
     
  12. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Reproduced from an email doing the rounds


     
  13. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Isn't the average Australian wage now about 70k per annum?
     
  14. TheEnd

    TheEnd Well-Known Member

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    These massive redundancy packages are disgusting.....Shame on Holden and the workers/unions for allowing it all to happen.
     
  15. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I can guarantee the workers/unions wont feel any shame about it happening. ;)
     
  16. TheEnd

    TheEnd Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if the new Chinese built Commadore/Buick will be a flop?
     
  17. TheEnd

    TheEnd Well-Known Member

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  18. petey

    petey Active Member Silver Stacker

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    The Chinese may have a few things going against them but from what I understand they don't have a "bongs at lunch" culture so quality may well be good.
     
  19. Caput Lupinum

    Caput Lupinum Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    So your fellow brothers and sisters in tools are losing their jobs and you're disgusted at their payouts. Sounds to me like someone's just jelly. :rolleyes:
     
  20. TheEnd

    TheEnd Well-Known Member

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    No its just way too much money......I got 7k for nearly ten years service and they get 300K....WTF!!!!!!! :mad:
     

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