Awww... thanks Ag... much appreciated... I'm just a Panda fan PandaCollector is the expert. It would be too much effort for the counterfeiters to make a flawless Panda counterfeit. It would be much easier to fake a design that doesn't change (e.g. Maples/ASEs) than it is for a Panda. Plus, the packaging on the gold Pandas would need to be counterfeited too. This would require a cross of two separate industries (plastics and minting), increasing their exposure to the authorities. I can imagine the State Government allowing the counterfeiters to get away with making fake foreign coins, but faking their Pandas coins = death (with the price of the bullet sent to their family). Yeah, you're right, when Perth Mint coins start commanding a higher premium, you can be sure that the counterfeiters will start targeting them too. It is unfortunately how the game works (not just for Pandas, but for most coins of value). As Jislizard wrote in another thread about the infamous Fake ASE: http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-11108-fake-american-silver-eagles.html "In a tourist souvenir shop in the main tourist street in the main tourist hotspot of Athens, Greece... I went down to the basement of the shop and there were about 8 to 10 tables heaving under the weight of fake coins... None of them have 'copy' on them. Nice selection of 1851 Indian Head $1 1796 Draped bust 1799 Draped Bust 1795 Draped bust 1878 Trade Dollar 1804 Draped Bust 1872 Seated Liberty 1906 ASE" Thanks for your thoughts Ag.
If any here are thinking about buying pandas here's my 2oz's worth. I have bought a few Pandas and have to say that they're definitely the real deal, absolutely BEAUTIFUL coins!!! Get the book, Gold and silver panda coin buyer's guide by Peter Anthony. You must buy this FIRST. Second, buy graded, slabbed coins exclusively. Or else boxed, COA, and double sealed. Investors generally only look at 68,69 or 70 graded coins OR double sealed mint packaged coins. Third (least favoured option) buy from ebay only from those with an extensive Panda range. Wait a minute... If you don't buy there's more for me, yennus and meeko, scratch the above... go the Perth Mint numi's!!
In regards to Ebay, do any of you order internationally ? I wanted to get a coin set from Australia to the U.S. off of Ebay, the seller has over 10,000 transactions and a 99.9% rating...the set will be around 800 dollars ( Using PayPal for the transaction ) with the shipping. Just curious if any of you do AUS to U.S. or U.S. to AUS on a regular basis , and what kind of experiences to expect ( Average delivery time, etc )
I think that I am done with international eBay purchases. I just received an empty packet from Belgium despite paying $400 over my won price because the win price was ridiculously low below spot. At least i got pretty close to spot - stupid me. I did think of this thread suggestions when paying so I guess i'll see how helpful PayPal are in retrieving my money. I just want to punch someone in the nose.... probably me for not listening to my own warning bells.
I am sorry to read that Nap - bargains can be risky business - contact the seller and let him know lodge an item not received and go through the Paypal process - let us know how you go
Thanks, I have had extensive discussions with the seller both prior to paying and post. He was even hassling me to pay despite my reservations and reported me to eBay. Now he claims to have sent the goods and provided the (empty) postage receipt - marked as 6 coins, the dill. We will see whether it turns into a $1700 lesson. Stupid me.
Keep those conversations and paste the message history into your complaint - that may help show the seller's intention which you have experienced and have now proven - sucks to be right eh - leave appropriate feedback
I've made over 200 purchases on eBay and had about 4-5 disputes. Either eBay or PayPal (same company) always refunded my money with no hassle. I have no worries buying on eBay...none whatsoever. Also, if you buy from reputable sellers and dealers or better still, graded Pandas, you probably have just as good a chance of being struck by lightening as buying a fake coin of any kind.
Buyers have a good chance to win. I even lost a case with pay pal after my buyer left positive feedback thanking for the coin and excellent service, and the post office did not pay the insurance because the item was signed and delivered. I am no longer with Pay Pal.
Apmex, Gainesville, Goldmart and others have the Pandas for well under $45. They come in sheets of 30. I bought 120+ 2010 Pandas from Gainesville last year and 120 of the coins came in 4 sheets and the rest in capsules.
i got stung this week on ebad too. The seller emailed me after the auction, and i ended up with fake Thaler for my troubles. And he obviously sold a fake coin to someone else for me to get a second chance offer as well. They actually look just like the real coin too with wear and everything.. but on handing it, too light and highly magnetic. *twig* I wonder how many poor people get one and not know..
Hi DCCPA, Since posting this months back i got my hands on some real 2011 pandas (bulliondeals group buy). . still highly skeptical buying pandas online and buying a panda on ebay considering there rules is a very risky endeavour indeed. I note recently FAKE pandas are being sold with REAL images.??? i mean HTF are you supposed to know what your buying until you get it.. then you NEED TO PROVE to EBAY its a fake. (i have had this in the past with a fake INDO-CHINE trade dollar.. which brings me to my next point.. if you like pandas.. why not just go all out and collect china numismatics... of course the fake problem is just as rife.. but china numismatics (IMO) have to be the biggest potential profit vechile in the whole industry right now.. i have seen the value go up 1000% in the last 5 years! These are not some tacky modern production but circulated antique silver with some serious history, i know what id rather.. looking a fat sad bear only satisifies me to a point, i like to look a "fat-man" *the famous china trade crown and dragons too.. Pandas are ok but i definiltey dont buy the hype and think you need to know your stuff and should only stack a portion of silver in pandas.. and only buy the current year cos the previous years price over spot is (IMO) not the best investment for your buck.. esp when you can get lunars and kooks as a function of spot. 1for1
ebay is a great and an unprecedented Selling tool. A few of the disputes mentioned were probably Buyer ignorance. Due diligence is necessary wherever you buy. Purchasing with poor or no buyer feed back in PM's is asking to increase your Risk. Paypal is geared towards Buyers thats true and i don't allow it if i sell anything over $500..I just won't accept that risk. REDBACK
I tell ya what's happened to me twice. My winning bids were so obviously below the value that the seller was looking for, they emailed me and said "sorry, out of stock" One guy says for me to look at his other stuff and make an offer. I had bid on 5 oz of silver. I forget what spot was at the time, but it was about a buck over spot, my winning bid. I told him I wanted any 5 oz for a buck over spot. he responds "oh I can't do that, I gotta make some money" I basically read him the riot act and filed a case with eBay which went nowhere. Basically you an put something up for a no reserve auction and if you don't get enough, just tell the winning bidder "sorry, out of stock" Which of course is absolute BS!!!
Wasn't real happy to watch the fake panda video to find that german silver plated with real silver gets the coin density spot on. Used to be that the fake Pandas weighed around 27-28 grams. Several years ago, the quality of the fakes made them very easy to spot; not any more. So now the fake coins are spot on dimensionally, spot on in weight and almost perfect in appearance (the one in the video). Flipping great. Seems to me that the counterfeiters are getting entirely too good and if silver continues to climb, it will get worse. Bad news indeed.
somehow, I sympathize with the seller. Ebay reserve fee is Simply TOO high, Ebay fees in general is simply TOO high. NO one can afford to sell at a loss. After all, MOST of small time sellers on Ebay are NOT rich people.
I bought 2001-2009 panda on Ebay in 2010 before silver price zoomed up, sold by an honest collector who lost his job, and need money. About same time, I also bought 10 2010 panda 1oz from an ebayer. I am happy with both purchases. NONE of them are fake
Then you do not list it at auction, only list the item as a 'buy it now'. Or if it is the fees that are the concern then do not use ebay and go elsewhere.
