I won this item on Ebay today and after reading on SS about fakes on Ebay I did some more checking before paying http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300569987227&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT The 1987 Panda had a mintage of 31,000 that year and only in proofs? Also the ten YUEN lettering is missing on the 2004 and 1987 coins. I will be more careful in future boy we learn everyday don't we.I sent the seller a link to Pandacollector so he can check them but I pulled out of sale. Meeko
Bloody Panda's - your a braver man than me buying these coins/rounds... The lure of high future premiums drag the buyer in to the web - you escaped but many wont...
I recently purchased a Krugerrand on ebay from a seller with no feedback, I paid through paypal thank goodness. The coin was never sent and I lodged a complaint to paypal. It took 30 days to get my money back. Fortunately I didnt transfer the money via bank deposit. Huge lesson learned
And I got scammed before on eBay buying USB sticks .. lucky I paypal as well and whinged hard enough to get my money back Bloody eBay!!!! The real bargains are few!
Paypal is generally geared towards protecting buyers though IMO. Sure, might take a while to get your money back - but at least you get it back!
Yeah you're right RM, hence why my natural instinct was to pay through Paypal. I have stopped selling on ebay, I am 100% buyer only, their fees are exorbitant
I sell quite a bit on eBay, but it's things I don't want anymore around the house, not so much trying to make a profit. Fees are therefore just part of getting rid of it.
I end up giving a lot of stuff to charity centres and occasionally the tender center just because i don't want the hassle of ebay.
Yeah... there's tons of fake pandas on ebay mascarading as the real deal... and until your a pro you wont know you've been had! I actually dont know ANYWHERE to by legitimate Pandas in Australia AT ALL.. never seen. I have seen on apmex in usa but prices are absolutley numismatic. So i have been hearing Pandas are $45 US ... so where do i buy these pandas for $45? do they coin in rolls of 20? Are they produced by the centralised govt of China? Ebay is great for buying except for a couple of numismatic fields.... some old school famous crown size coins are faked.. And the DA-DA.. PANDA In terms of selling... its a quagmire of fees and rules that protect the buyer and pin your seller balls to the wall, still an ignorant buyer wont realise he's been had! 1for1
Much of the above comments are pure opinionated Pandaphobia hype. No offense intended, but some of the points are just outrageous. Sharing your hysteria and Panda-paranoia, and asking questions like "where do i buy these pandas for $45? do they coin in rolls of 20? Are they produced by the centralised govt of China?" just goes to show you haven't done your homework, but are willing to comment and slander on coins you have very limited knowledge on. Please put aside your Panda-prejudice and consider the following. 1. You are not brave for buying Pandas, you are smart. a) Jim Rogers recently purchased $270,000 worth of Pandas. [imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/675_jimrogersbuyspandas.jpg][/imgz] b) The price of Pandas globally have been increasing. Source: http://www.pandacollector.com/ 2. Not all Pandas sold online are fake. Buy from repuatable dealers in the USA, Australia, elsewhere and you will be fine. a) E.g. USA: APMEX, Yellow River Rare Coins, Northeast Coins, etc b) E.g. Australia: KJC, Downies, etc c) E.g. Silverstackers: Maggie, Ozbullion, etc 3. Yes, there are lots of fake Pandas on Ebay. I advise people to stay away from buying Pandas on Ebay, unless the person has a solid reputation. 4. Even a child can tell the difference between a fake panda and a real Panda. You do NOT need to be an expert. If you can detect the difference between a fake ASE, you can detect the difference between a real Panda and a fake panda. a) The fakes are fairly obvious [imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/675_2009-chinese-silver-panda-i0-yaun-999-gem-bu-1-oz-ba63d.jpg][/imgz] - Real [imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/675_fakepanda.jpg][/imgz] - Fake b) The fakes have never been sold in original satchels Not only have I confirmed this, but so has Pandacollector who actively searches for fake pandas, he states "...the counterfeiters in general (not just for the 2010s) have so far not duplicated the genuine pouches really well. You would think that should be easy, but either it isn't or the bad guys haven't paid enough attention to it up until now." 5. Legitimate Pandas can be purchased at many places in Australia. (KJC, Downies, Silverstackers, Maggie, Ozbullion, Bullion Club, etc) 6. Yes, Pandas can be available at around $45USD (available at the places just mentioned), they come in sheets of 30. Get some Panda education first. a) http://www.pandacollector.com/ b) "the 1997 silver Panda that went from $2,250 to $41,700 in just three years? Or did word reach him of the Panda Index1 that has run up from $10,000 to $50,000 in five years?" http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=20484 7. Yes, they are produced primarily at the Shenzhen Guobao Mint (A State Owned Enterprise in China). 8. Pandas are not difficult to sell. They sell very quickly here, and the majority of silverstackers are well informed bullion buyers/sellers.
KJC, downies, bullion club, forums, site sponsors etc. I could part with a few 2011 pandas for $45/each if you're desperate... Sometimes you get bargains like MatrixOpals dumping them for $42 if you wait.
$44 when you order more than 20 too, pretty cheap pricing. Legit decent priced pandas definitely out there just need to shop around.
Much of the above comments are pure opinionated Pandaphobia hype. No offense intended, but some of the points are just outrageous. Sharing your hysteria and Panda-paranoia, and asking questions like "where do i buy these pandas for $45? do they coin in rolls of 20? Are they produced by the centralised govt of China?" just goes to show you haven't done your homework, but are willing to comment and slander on coins you have very limited knowledge on. _______________ Why all the pandamonium? Have you taken it upon yourself to be the Champion of the Panda? Let down that paw for a sec... I asked where i could buy some pandas at $45 as i want to buy.. this "Pandaphobia" call is in stark similarity to the recent "CLIMATE DENIER" type beat down on anyone expressing a contraion or individual opinion. One of my core morals is that i will be allowed to have my say and i extend that to anyone. Of course its my point of view.. im being highly subjective.. you cannot claim to be otherwise can you? Personal opinion is the basis for forums in my mind (should we all reciet the same song?) I see a time when Chinese (just like any consumer) will weigh up there purchasing oppertunity cost... and like all others will click that they want a range of bullion rather than one type.. if alternatives are considerably cheaper id hazard they there cognitive dissonance of choosing a more expensive panda vs a cheaper bullion product of the same weight and purity would get the better of them and like all consumers would become promicuious. Ill try to leave my emotions out of my purchasing decisions.. id say your confirmation bias towards pandas has clouded your judgement and ability to stay objective. As stated i was actually asking where to buy and did not actually EVER see a coin shop or online seller within aus that sold em. The central bank question was also legitimate although i can see how it could have been interpreted as a piss take. Oh and... seems like we both rate Jim Rogers.. you mention him extensively.. i like his investment advice where he says to always have a contrarion investment outlook, ie short when everyone else is going long.. nUFF Said. 1for1
There have been several threads on here in the last few weeks from known reputable dealers offering pandas and they are represented in a couple of the banner ad sponsors as well. They are easier to come by this year, than last I think.
Whenever you are using PayPal ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS fund the purchase from your credit card. It is very simple to do a chargeback to your credit card and you dont have to worry about freggin around with PayPal disputes.
Yep - have done my homework like here - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/30-PIECE...219?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf6baf5ab got every year from 1982 to 2010 actually this seller can sell you multiples of 10 for about 1/2 oz delivered... ...but my favorite is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIwytQ-8A4s same weight and dimensions - only way to check was destroying the coin...watch the vid and listen to the audio Sorry but don't like Panda's for no other reason but there preference to counterfeiter due to there high premiums! Not 'Pandaphobia' or 'Panda-paranoia' but allowing others to hear both sides of the story and make there own opinion IMHO - will never own a real Panda as the risk just isn't worth it...or the hassle with the resell sometime in the future...
Hi Ag, your comments are more educated than 1for1. It's not like you were saying blatantly crazy stuff like "I actually dont know ANYWHERE to by legitimate Pandas in Australia AT ALL.. never seen." Yep, you have done your homework and are entitled to your opinion. I'm not sure how many times it has been said, but yeah, don't buy Pandas on Ebay. It's like going shopping for a Gucci/LV/Coach handbag at Paddy's Market (flea market in Sydney). Similarly, items that are worth more, generally attract more counterfeits. E.g. Designer label bags, etc... This doesn't kill the market, you just got to do your homework (which you have done... at least more than 1for1). Do people still buy designer label clothes, etc? Sure they do... but not usually at flea markets. Similarly, people still buy and sell Pandas, it's just not recommended to do that at Ebay. The YouTube video is pretty good at educating people on how to detect the fakes. It's been discussed by PandaCollector at his website. Here is a pic that shows the difference between the two. Similarly a simple magnet test would probably work on this one due to the presence of nickel. Likewise the fur has never been duplicated well. Source: www.pandacollector.com Sure, everyone is allowed to hear both sides of the story, but not everyone is a decent source of information. Especially when they purport to know something, when they clearly don't. (Once again, not your comment, 1for1's comment) "until your a pro you wont know you've been had!...so where do i buy these pandas for $45? do they coin in rolls of 20? Are they produced by the centralised govt of China?" Claims that only experts can detect fakes, and then demonstrates his lack of knowledge on the subject. I don't see a real risk to owning Pandas if the source is decent, especially if the banks in China are selling them and buying them. I think there are far more fake $100USD bills in circulation, and yet people still use $100USD bills - and those fakes are harder to detect than Pandas. In terms of re-sell ability, I don't know if anyone here has had any issues moving them (Maggie, Ozbullion, Matrixopal, etc)... I personally have had a harder time selling my Maples and ASEs (at $40/oz) than I have had at selling my 2010 Pandas (at $45). Peace mate Grass is green... sun is warm... Pandas are vegetarian not carnivores (usually).
yennus - I've just read some of your posts and it's pretty clear how passionate you are over this bullion and the education you and PandaCollector are sharing across the forum - for that nice job to the both of you...looking at both the pics you've posted - the difference is clear, but another couple of attempts the difference could be very little meaning the counterfeiter can start fine tuning his flaws? As I understand, China has very strict penalties on anyone counterfeiting 'legal tender' like a 10 Yuan, yet some still take the risk... I guess my dis-test to Panda's is accepting that fearful day when my beloved Perth Mint Lunars are sitting on Fleabay, where series 1 and II can all be picked up for the price of one ounce of pure silver...as you have made clear - it's buyer beware
