Diamonds

Discussion in 'Other Investments' started by sfstacker, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. sfstacker

    sfstacker New Member

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    I've been looking at the Diamonds sold by Provident. I think I may buy one or two but I'm not sure if its worth it.

    Pros/Cons?

    Also, how would I value these? With bullion I can just look at the spot prince but how do I find the actual value of the diamonds?

    This is one of the items I'm looking at: https://www.providentmetals.com/diamond-melee-certicard-vs-10-15-points.html

    Their buyback price (939) is only $60 under their sale price so is it correct to assume that the value of these as just bullion is at least $940?
     
  2. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    here there everywhere
    DON'T go there
     
  3. Phil_Stacker

    Phil_Stacker New Member

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    I looked into their claims (got a brochure). They lie. Almost every fact is a lie. A diamond dealer once told me that there are two ways to profit from diamonds, put them on the finger of someone you want to keep or sell them to someone who wants to do that. VERY subjective, controlled and unethical industry.

    Again, don't get into it big time unless you want to put in hours of research.
     
  4. Trident

    Trident Member Silver Stacker

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    Do not pay $1000 for that!

    The value is determined by perceived rarity, brilliance, size, grading etc..marketing, retail pricing and what people are willing to pay.

    I'm not sure that you would personally be able to determine the exact value yourself unless you have a market to sell to or a knowledge of the gem trade/ jewellery industry. As such, that may put you into the "what people are willing to pay" camp. In some cases the packaging, grading and marketing can make a tiny shiny rock look and seem valuable. In reality, the rocks are probably only worth a few dollars each.

    Probably safe to assume you won't be able to sell for the same price you paid (if you pay retail) - as in your provident metals example =instantly losing $60. If they decided to drop their Buy Back - would you have an alternative buyer?

    If you have never been to a local gem fare - go to one - you might be surprised how inexpensive gems stones really are.
     
  5. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    here there everywhere
    Containers of them
    Yes 45 ft containers of them stashed in the UK ;)

    Debeers have a deal with the UK gov that NO diamond imported & exports are ever counted :eek:
    It's a pissing contest between the mega rich

    Now find me a 5-6 ct natural ruby & you have a rare stone
    After you find it please send it this way :lol:
     
  6. sfstacker

    sfstacker New Member

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    I know that the market dictates diamond prices. Same for PM bullions. But for bullion you got a base. Weight/fineness/spot price. There has to be a base calculator for diamonds that's something along the lines carats/inclusions/color, right??
     
  7. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    among gems, diamonds are actually the most common.

    You are actually paying for marketing and labour of the cutter.
     
  8. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Valuations are only good for insurance purposes, useless otherwise.

    You can't. It's only worth whatever the next sucker is willing to pay.
    Don't invest in diamonds, you'll be in for a rude shock when you go to sell them.
     
  9. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    There is a basic formula based on weight:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamonds_as_an_investment
    But diamond valuations are basically a crock. Seriously, don't go there.
     
  10. ParanoidAndroid

    ParanoidAndroid Well-Known Member

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    As others have suggested, don't go there.

    Diamonds pass through a lot of hands before making it to the retail customer, and everybody along the line takes their slice of the profit pie. Unless it's a rare colour, anything under a carat isn't considered investment size. Its simply the offcuts from bigger stones and the true value is a fraction of what the end retail price would indicate.

    Just don't go there
     
  11. Roswell Crash Survivor

    Roswell Crash Survivor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If you want to learn how the modern diamond industry works, go buy a copy of this chap's book.

    The Heartless Stone by Tom Zoellner
    Sub-title: "A Journey Through the World of Diamonds, Deceit, and Desire"

    https://www.amazon.com/Heartless-St.../ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=

    It's non-fiction but written like a novel. Follows the entire supply chain from mining, smuggling, cutting, all the way until it ends up in a retail jeweler.

    Plus the marketing that tries to fool the world into thinking diamonds are rare.
     
  12. RichardAL

    RichardAL Member Silver Stacker

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    Also worth a look:

    "Diamond - The History of a Cold-Blooded Love Affair" by Matthew Hart, A Plume Book published first in September, 2002.

    The subtitles of these books alone speak volumes. You don't even have to buy them, can grab them via the library.

    In addition to outlining the development of the marketing shenanigans that currently rule this commodity, this particular volume details the hunt for diamond bearing kimberlite pipes throughout the cratonic regions of the world that followed the realisation that blue ground at depth could prove profitable as the ultimate source of gem quality diamonds (even so a particular kind of pipe that sampled close to a particular region of the mantle is required, ie 5 out of every 6 new pipes found would prove worthless - and so it has been).

    Pearls have also, in essence, succumbed to the same fate.
     
  13. Phil_Stacker

    Phil_Stacker New Member

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    Plus "Fakes" can be made with increasing quality at decreasing price. This is not true (practically) for pm.

    If you want to invest in diamonds and make money, do it illegally, be part of the New York diamond sindicate or start a venture fooling people into increasing in diamonds.
     
  14. radiobirdman

    radiobirdman Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Buy shares in a diamond mine, LOM on the asx has been doing alright
     
  15. sfstacker

    sfstacker New Member

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    Trust me. I know the whole diamond market is completely fabricated and the three major companies are owned by the same entity thus allowing them to compete with themselves and manipulate prices. This is the same argument I'll take to my grave in opposition to purchasing a diamond wedding ring if I ever get married.

    But I'm not investing in these to make boatloads of cash. The concept would be as simple as bullion purchasing. Maybe in 5-10 years I can sell the things for a few bucks more than what I paid for them.

    I think I'll stay away though. Too much negativity about them.
     
  16. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    ".....are a girl's BEST friend"
     
  17. REDBACK

    REDBACK Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Huh!
    Try using the diamonds are a scam logic on women and you'll be in for a rude shock!
    When my wife and I got together at 30 I followed my early twenties moto of I'll buy you as much platinum,palladium,silver or gold jewellery as you want but you can forget about me buying a worthless rock!
    When all her friends started flashing around their bling that resolve lasted about 4.5 seconds
    Never really splashed out on expensive stones but the mass marketing has brainwashed many generations.
    Save your money until such time as your pressured into wasting it ;)

    REDBACK
     
  18. shinymetal

    shinymetal Well-Known Member

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    This is unreal!! Diamond batteries that last 5000 years.
    It came out in the last few days.
    Way above my head and it could be a hoax, but i hope it's not.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6ME88nMnYE[/youtube]
     
  19. sfstacker

    sfstacker New Member

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    Just no!

    While on Earth the gravity forms quartz in the normal way that you would find it. If you CRUSH the crystal you also crush the crystalline structure of the crystal. Because the structure is disfigured it causes any electromagnetic waves that may have entered the crystal to then leave the crystal. This is because the way the structure is formed normally. It allows EM waves in but they bounce around at an angle that does not allow them to escape. Inversely if you put Quartz in a vacuum it will STRETCH the crystalline structure which will then allow more EM waves to flow into it.

    This is called paso electricity. And by a batteries technical definition you could call quartz crystal a battery of sorts.

    Diamonds on the other hand do not have the same structure.

    Just google crystalline structure of quartz for the source of information. However, I found this information in a book that was an encyclopedia of rocks and gemstones in case anyone is interested in my source.
     
  20. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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