Cheapest way to start and manage a SMSF buying gold and silver

Discussion in 'Superannuation' started by bellpepper, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    Why?
     
  2. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Long story. Basically I was with them for 2 years then they sent me a letter arguing I had breached their T&Cs and my account would be closed and no further correspondence would be entered into. And that was that.
     
  3. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Let me guess, you actually did something to violate their T&C's :D

    FYI, eSuperfund exists at the relatively low prices they do because they have automated systems to handle almost everything. If you want to do anything outside the norm that requires their manual input then they generally aren't going to be happy with that and they aren't the right choice.
     
  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They had no problem with what we did in the first year, but they jacked up in the second year. The fact that they terminated our account with them two days before our audit was due to be submitted to the ATO without any further correspondence permitted with them means that eSuper suck.

    At some point, in order for a SMSF to fully realise potential benefits for its members, it will be necessary for eSuperfund customers to move their business to another provider.
     
  5. zedstrange

    zedstrange Member

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    In that case, an SMSF is not for you until you have more funds in your Super.
    At ~1k pa thats 1% if you have $100k of super. Some Retail funds are charhing more than that!

    The beauty of having an SMSF is that your annual fee doesnt increase in line with your Super balance.

    (and good luck finding an SMSF for less than ~1k pa, there are some but they require more admin work and setup costs )
     
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  6. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Try Squirrel if you are in Sydney. I hear good things about them.
     
  7. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    The only downside to the SMSF is when the tax bill comes in and you have the shock of paying the tax on your inputs and any gains if your own company (or employer) hasn't taken it out for you before hand. It seems like you are paying a lot when you don't have this stuff hidden from you by an employer and a super fund.
    Kinda balanced out by the warm fuzzy of seeing the balance of your fund every time you log into your bank account though.
     
  8. Bobsydney

    Bobsydney Member

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    Can you put two separate super accounts under the one self managed fund with esuper like you and wife's?
     
  9. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ^ yes, rollover the funds from both is easy
     
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  10. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but both have to be trustees of the fund. eSuperfund gives you a drop down box in the system to chose who a contribution comes from. To move the super money from your old super fund to the SMSF you simply fill in the standard super rollover form and it will be duly process and the money magically appears in your account. eSuperfund only has one bank account for up to four trustees though, so the system keeps track of who owns what. But (AFAIK) investments are done in the name of the fund, not individual trustees, but I've never really looked into the full details of that.
     
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  11. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    Thanks for the information Silver
    Ive now have my own SMSF set up (with eSuperfund), I'm waiting for my soon to be old superfund's balance to regain the recent drop then I'm going to roll it over

    Thanks
     
  12. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    This may not belong here but it directly relates to my SMSF
    I thought (maybe incorrectly) buying PM from lets say through ABC Bullion's platform and storing it in their allocated pool locked in a price, when you want to take possession of it lets say 4 years later, you paid a "barring fee"
    This barring fee would be what it would theoretically cost to melt granules and pour a bar, lets say $30 for a bar

    However, looking at the how they charge barring fees, ABC Bullion use this example

    "Assume you have 1 troy ounce of gold bullion in ABC Pool Allocated Product, worth AUD $1,500. Assume that at the same time, ABC Bullion is selling a physical 1 troy ounce gold cast bar for AUD $1,530.

    In this case, the differential between your holdings, and the physical cast bar itself, is AUD $30.

    If you wanted to convert your 1 troy ounce of ABC Pool Allocated Product into a 1 ounce ABC Bullion gold cast bar, then the fee you would pay would simply be AUD $30, plus GST."

    Does this mean
    For example, I buy ABC Pool Allocated 1 Oz bar for $1,500 in 2012, in 2019 I want to take possession of it, ABC Bullion is selling a physical 1 troy ounce gold cast bar for AUD $2,200
    The 'barring' fee would be the difference between my holdings, and the physical cast bar itself $770 (GST adjusted)
    Is this correct?
     
  13. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Doesn't make sense. Your barring fee would be the difference between an ounce of allocated gold and an ounce bar at the time you decide to withdraw. Not on the difference of the value at the time you bought in.
     
  14. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    That makes a heap more sense, their wording in the example isn't clear
    It would be far clearer if they'd used years between purchasing and barring and focus on the bars weight, then refer to the buy sell spread for the same weighted bar as the 'barring fee' if you want to take physical possession
     
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  15. silverlining333

    silverlining333 Member Silver Stacker

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    I've been with esuper for years , with everything running smoothly, but this year the auditor wants us to store with a third party, doesnt accept my market value evaluation, also saying I'm getting personal use from storing them ?

    Ive supplied the same documents as Every other year but now they arent sufficient.?

    I think they want us to move over to their Bullion partners so they get a cut $$$
     
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  16. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Looks like you guys are having the same trouble. See this thread.

    https://www.silverstackers.com/foru...alue-of-the-bullion-asset.93078/#post-1101295
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
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  17. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    "Assume you have 1 troy ounce of gold bullion in ABC Pool Allocated Product, worth AUD $1,500"

    I will get it changed to say "currently worth AUD $1,500"

    It is basically just saying the way to work out barring or premium is just subtract current spot metal value of the item from its current selling price.
     
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  18. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    Ive opened an account with ABC Bullion with my new eSuperfund SMSF, unfortunately missed the last Silver Dip ($815/kg). At the time ABC were selling their bars (Unallocated) for $853 from memory
    I was thinking of making a purchase in the present or next dip as unallocated then pay a barring fee when i'm in Sydney next and take possession, is that how it works?
     
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  19. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    Right now 1kg of ABC Bullion Pool Allocated Silver is $873.80 and 1kg ABC Bullion Cast Bar Silver is $893.10. The difference of $19.30 is the barring charge. If you bought the pool allocated and then came to Sydney later to take possession, we would charge a barring fee of $21.23 ($19.30 + 10% GST) as the barring is then considered a separate "service" on which GST has to be charged. Barring fees are GST free only when "supplied" at the time of buying the physical bar.
     
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  20. JOHNLGALT

    JOHNLGALT Well-Known Member

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    Zzzzzzzzzz, Snore, cough, choke, clears throat.
    Allocated account = you DO NOT HAVE THE METAL IN YOUR PERSONAL POSSESSION.
    Get the picture?
    If you do not hold it this late in the game, YOU DO NOT OWN IT.
    You can thank me later, after the 'RESET'. _JOHNLGALT.
     
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