Cheapest way to start and manage a SMSF buying gold and silver

Discussion in 'Superannuation' started by bellpepper, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. bellpepper

    bellpepper New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Perth
    any help would be appreciated...

    I am happy doing the legwork, I just don't want to pay for other people to manage my super.
     
  2. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    544
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Go to http://esuperfund.com.au/
    Fill in the form.
    They send you huge bunch of paperwork to sign to set up your SMSF, brank account, and online metals trading account with https://www.bullioncapital.com/
    Sign it and send back.
    A few weeks later you have all your accounts, a SMSF company and ABN, and you can start trading metal with your own super money.
    Once a year you fill out an automated online form for your tax return and that's about it.
    Super easy unless you do something complicated like borrow to buy property.
     
  3. Dindor

    Dindor New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Melbourne
    can it be done through setting up a company and if so how much would that cost
     
  4. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    544
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    SMSF's must be operated by a company.
    In eSuperfund for example, they will automatically register a company for you.
     
  5. whinfell

    whinfell Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    3,404
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    Not correct - SMSF's can be operated by individual trustees, or by a corporate trustee.
     
  6. GoldenEye

    GoldenEye Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2014
    Messages:
    903
    Likes Received:
    274
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    It can be done with the trustee as a company or individual/s. A company will cost more, but you should see your accountant about the cost and advantages.
     
  7. aussiewebking

    aussiewebking Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2016
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Australia
    just a heads up for everyone

    http://esuperfund.com.au/

    is doing free setup and the first year free accounts for all new SMSF until Sep 30th :)

    how good is that :)
     
  8. Alfie

    Alfie Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    It's girt by sea
    Here is a hypothetical courtesy of my friend's neighbor, Cesil
    Apparently he has sub 200k in a retail super fund
    He had an idea of creating a SMSF, buy a good safe, keeping it on his own property, buy sub 200k of bullion, lock it in the safe and return when he retired

    1) What would I tell Cesil about the Costs involved to create a SMSF?
    2) What Running costs would he expect?

    Apparently Cesil is a right tight arse so as per OP, what would be his cheapest options?
     
  9. aussiesilver

    aussiesilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,394
    Likes Received:
    155
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Victoria
    Cecil could not use Esuperfund to setup to buy bullion and self store. They now have a preferred supplier of theirs and require this company to store on their behalf. I think this change was brought about because as one of their clients I bought silver bullion in lunar coin form and held myself, which they had no control over
     
  10. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    544
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Incorrect. Esuperfund do allow you to store bullion yourself.
    https://www.esuperfund.com.au/other-assets/metals/how-it-works
    It's only is you by the metal through Bullion Capital can you not take possession yourself.
    Absolutely nothing stopping you buying metal with your SMSF bank account from any dealer and storing it yourself, you just need to minute that. The SMSF laws allow this, and eSuperfund will just demand extra paperwork.
    https://www.esuperfund.com.au/investments/allowed
     
  11. Alfie

    Alfie Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    It's girt by sea
    If one was to store PM on their own premises, is it correct to assume it would have to be insured (e.g Corporate Trustee's due diligence)?
    Can anyone direct me to an Australian insurer of either:
    1) Contents of a safe
    2) Precious metal bars
     
  12. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    544
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Insurance is not a requirement for bullion, but is required for collectibles (i.e. many coins)
    You do have to minute your reasons for not having insurance though I believe.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/Super/Self-m...stments/Collectables-and-personal-use-assets/

    upload_2019-8-16_10-49-17.png
     
    Alfie and Jislizard like this.
  13. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,711
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Australia
    I am using eSuperfund. I have unallocated metals stored at a Dealers. I looked at the other options and I can confirm everything that SilverDJ has posted.

    My Financial advisor wanted $4000 to set me up with a self managed superfund and all the other requirements, I already had eSuperfund and I am glad that I set it up earlier.

    We did make life hard for ourselves by borrowing money to buy a property, having physical and unallocated gold and silver, performing GSR swaps etc.

    The company will tell you what bits you need to provide and will tell you what you need when you get it wrong. They won't give you any advice or anything like that but over the past 10 years I have never regretted going with them.

    We had to minute our decision not to have the metals in a bank vault and also not to have them insured, but the company sent through the proforma for us to complete and that was about as much work as we have ever had to put into it.
     
    Alfie likes this.
  14. 66rounds

    66rounds Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2019
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Why does esuper charge 1k a year? That would drain my super faster than I can fill it.
     
  15. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,711
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Australia
    I think about $240 is an ATO charge for something or other, and I have to pay the ATO another $49 for some reason. Seems like all SMSF have to pay that regardless of who manages them.
     
  16. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2011
    Messages:
    7,711
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Australia
    I think the rest is about $800 a year to lodge the tax returns. No way I could get everything together and keep up with the ongoing changes to the laws without them.

    The Financial advisors were looking to charge way more than that for the same service.
     
  17. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    544
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Because it costs money to run such a system, hire skilled accountants and handle all the auditing etc.
    If you think you can do it cheaper then there is a huge market that will make you rich.
    The rule of thumb is that SMSF are not suitable for anyone with less than $100k in super.
     
    66rounds likes this.
  18. 66rounds

    66rounds Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2019
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Melbourne
    That's fair enough. Was thinking it would be best to start off with a SMSF but may need to have a decent balance elsewhere and then transfer over for it to be viable.
     
  19. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Messages:
    3,459
    Likes Received:
    544
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes, you can't start off with a SMSF as there is no economy of scale you get with a normal managed super fund that pools your money with a hundred thousand other people and they manage it as one big pot.
    It's not cheap to run a SMSF regardless of how you go about it.
     
  20. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    18,084
    Likes Received:
    1,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    昆士蘭

Share This Page