Banning cash and NEGATIVE interst rates.

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by bretto, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. milled

    milled Active Member

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    The draft makes it clear that individuals are lumped in the definition of an "entity". Read it and you will weep.

    As willrocks points out, exemptions are made, but subject to ministerial oversight, meaning that the power to define what is exempt is with a government minister, nothing more, nothing less.

    That is vastly different to what we have now, the ability to transact with each other without such authoritarianism.
     
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  2. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    an
    and the exemption as i said CURRENTLY exempt transactions between individuals to the $10k limit

    your quoting a section from a completely different bill is irrelevant
     
  3. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    do you care to actually link where it sayd an indvidual is an entity in THIS bill ( here a hint you cant )

    the section willrocks quotes if from entirely different legislation and has nothign to do with this bill but nice try
     
  4. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    and for the mentally challenged in this thread

    Excepted transactions
    The payments not subject to the cash payment limit are:

    • payments related to personal or private transactions (other than transactions involving real property);
    • payments that must be reported by an entity under anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism legislation, provided, broadly, the entity with a reporting obligation complies (or is reasonably believed to have complied) with their obligations under that legislation;
    • payments made or accepted by a public official in which the public official is legally required to make or accept a cash payment in the course of their duties;
    • payments that only exceed the cash payment limit because the payment is part of a transaction involving collecting, holding or delivering cash and this is undertaken in the course of an enterprise of collecting or delivering cash (i.e., providing cash-in-transit services);
    • payments that only exceed the cash payment limit because payment is or includes an amount of digital currency; and
    • payments that occur in situations where no alternative method of payment could reasonably be used.
    As I sail as it CURRENTLY stands transtactions between private INDIVIDUALS are not captured under these propsed laws.
     
  5. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  6. herkyderky

    herkyderky Member

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    https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInf...egislation/bills/r6418_first-reps/0000";rec=0
    Part 1, Section 7 of the Currency Bill 2019 as put forward to parliament clearly identifies an entity as an individual.......for the mentally challenged on this thread ;)
     
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  7. openeyes

    openeyes Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What does the legislation define as real property?
     
  8. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    an
    and as I have pinked it clearly spells out that private individuals are EXEMPT for the mentally challenged / retared as I have said over and over here

    I know reading my be difficult for some indviduals in this thread but here try to do it

    Section 5 – Personal or private transactions The first exception to the cash payment limit is for payments for personal or private transactions. This includes:  payments solely for supplies or acquisitions that are not made in the course of an enterprise; and  payments that are made or received by an entity in circumstances where that entity reasonably believes that the payment is solely for supplies or acquisitions that are not made in the course of an enterprise. Enterprise has the same broad meaning as in the A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax) Act 1999. An entity will be undertaking an enterprise if, for example, it carries on a business (or in the form of a business), offers real property for rent, is a charity or other recipient of gifts that are deductible for income tax, operates a superannuation fund or is the Commonwealth, a State or a Territory or an entity established for public purposes under an Australian law. 4 of 7 Effectively, the only circumstances in which an entity will not be carrying on an enterprise is where the entity is acting in a wholly private or personal capacity. The purpose of this exception is to exclude these private activities occurring outside a commercial or regulatory context, such as private gifts (but not donations to charities), inheritances and occasional private sales of assets (for example, the private sale of a used car). The first case in which this exception applies is based on the actual nature of a payment. In this case the exception applies based on the objective nature of a payment and protects both the entity making the payment and the entity accepting the payment. The second exception is based on the reasonable belief of the entity about the circumstances of the payment. This means that if an entity reasonably, but incorrectly believes, that the other party to a transaction is not acting in the course of an enterprise then the exception to the cash payment limit will apply to the payment for that entity, and that entity only. For example, if an individual sells their car to another individual reasonably believing the other individual has acquired the car for private use after undertaking reasonable inquiries such as searching the Australian Business Register, then the exception applies, even if this belief is incorrect as the other individual in fact acquired the car for use in a business they are carrying on. In general, whether a belief is reasonable will depend on the circumstances of the transaction and the parties. However, a reasonable belief must be a belief about facts – it does not protect an entity ignorant of the law or of the legal implications of facts. As this exception is connected to the belief of the relevant entity about the other party the exception may apply to a party making the payment, but not the entity accepting the payment, or vice versa. While a party may be reasonably unaware about the circumstances of another entity, it is unlikely that it would ever be reasonable for an entity to be unaware that the entity is acting the course of an enterprise.
     
  9. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    read above for the details
     
  10. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Nice try. But I don't feed the trolls.
     
  11. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You are aware that Section 5 was removed from the Bill and placed into an Instrument. What you're quoting above is no longer applicable.
     
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  12. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    and it is still relevant as it will still be an exemption as I said as it CURRENTLY stands indvidual private transactions ARE exempt

    yous mental retardation is strong
     
  13. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    bribed politicians would help keep some sections well hidden
     
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  14. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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  15. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What this tells me is that all cash transactions will need to be between consenting adults.

    Cash would need to circulate within the cash economy with all traceable transactions directed through the banks. Restaurants, petrol, cocaine and hookers, pubs etc. would all be cash.

    If you were to sell your stack for $100,000 to help buy a house, you would need to pay CGT on the profits as you pay it into a bank.

    Finally, will there be a "me too" moment down the track when a car buyer of say $15,000, threatens the seller for warranty a year down the track?
     
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  16. sctpc

    sctpc Active Member

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    Would be like dealing drugs except you would get two years jail and a $25000 fine, But drugs would be a $50 fine if not a written warning. What is worse?
     
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  17. sammysilver

    sammysilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    This also raises a GST issue. If you declare a transaction in order to bank some cash, will the ATO chase you for GST on top of CGT claiming it was the numismatic value above the bullion value that increased the value?
     
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  18. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    I don't see anywhere it includes precious metals. The definitions say "cash means either or both of the following: (a) digital currency; (b) physical currency" with those two definitions "has the meaning given by the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006" https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2019C00011 and that doesn't mention precious metals.
     
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  19. sctpc

    sctpc Active Member

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    GST is only payable by a business not a individual. also I bought all my gold and silver pre 1984 Before CGT was around and the PM I bought after is only sold in retirement when the tax will be minimal or sold in small amounts over different buyers
     
  20. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

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    You only have to register for GST if you run a business and your turnover is over $75k, so personal transactions you don't have a GST issue, but yes if you get audited they will expect CGT on any profits on sale of PMs.
     
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