Banning cash and NEGATIVE interst rates.

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by bretto, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Technically many bullion coins are legal tender, and therefore fall under "physical currency". The question is whether the face value is used or the market value. The authorities tend to use the bullion value.
     
    sgbuyer and 66rounds like this.
  2. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Perth
    physical currency is defined as "circulates as, and is customarily used and accepted as, a medium of exchange in the country of issue" so legal tender bullion coins would not be caught.
     
    66rounds likes this.
  3. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The definition you quoted is not stated anywhere in proposed Currency (Restrictions on the Use of Cash) Act 2019. The Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 is only referenced with regard to digital currency.

    The proposed cash ban act clearly states "cash or cash-like products". It also refers to the Australian constitution "is or includes an amount of cash that is currency, coinage or legal tender for the purposes of section 51(xii) of the Constitution; "

     
  4. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Perth
    Looking at the definitions at this link https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInf...egislation/bills/r6418_first-reps/0000";rec=0 it says

    cash means either or both of the following:

    (a) digital currency;

    (b) physical currency.

    digital currency has the meaning given by the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 .

    physical currency has the meaning given by the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006

    Is this not the correct link to the bill?
     
  5. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Perth
    That definition comes from the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 which the Currency (Restrictions on the Use of Cash) Act 2019 refers to (as per my previous post) when defining digital AND physical currency.
     
  6. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    113
    dd.png

    ee.png

    https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bills/r6418_first-reps/toc_pdf/19189b01.pdf;fileType=application/pdf#search="legislation/bills/r6418_first-reps/0000"
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  7. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Perth
    Yes, and that pdf on page 8 of 16 says physical currency as per AML Act, and that Act says physical currency is defined as "circulates as, and is customarily used and accepted as, a medium of exchange in the country of issue"
     
  8. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What do you make of the "Additional constitutional operation" section (coinage or legal tender for the purposes of section 51(xii) of the Constitution)?
     
  9. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Perth
    Sec 51 is just saying commonwealth has powers to legislate on currency. I think the "expressly confined to" mean that bit is to cover some unique case or loophole (not sure what that would be) and would not override the Act's explicit definitions. I don't think the drafters are aware of or care if they a aware that people could use legal tender bullion at market value and even if they did intend this by that section 19 then people could just use cast or minted bars.
     
  10. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Gold Coast QLD
    YAWN:

    there is an EXEMPTION for ditgital currencies SPECIFICALLY



    Section 9 – Digital currency The fifth exception is for payments that only exceed the cash payment limit because the transaction involves a payment that is or includes an amount of digital currency. The exception means that only the amount of physical currency in the payment is relevant for working out if the payment exceeds the cash payment limit. Digital currency is a new and developing area in the Australian economy. Unlike physical currency, it does not have a firmly established regulatory framework or industry structure. This makes it difficult to apply the cash payment limit in a way that would not largely prevent the use of digital currency in Australia or significantly stifle innovation in the sector. At the same time, there is little current evidence that digital currency is presently being used in Australia to facilitate black economy activities. Given this, the Government has decided at the present time to effectively carve digital currency out from the cash payment limit. This position will remain under ongoing scrutiny to ensure that the exemption for digital currency payments remains appropriate in light of the current use of digital currency in the Australian economy.

    again will rocks your mental prowess or lack there of is showing clearly
     
  11. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    7,405
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    like in the old time, when in the US, you can buy land and pay with that old gold coins and they are legal and binding
    what not, they are still the same
    some people does practice them
     
    66rounds likes this.
  12. kilo

    kilo Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    288
    Likes Received:
    107
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Could you post section 9 or a link to the proposed legislation please
     
  13. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    7,405
    Likes Received:
    1,279
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    we need to get this pass first, so that you can read them own your own time
     
    66rounds likes this.
  14. aelmsu

    aelmsu Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2018
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Could "accepted as" be manipulated to include legal tender bullion coins? Or is "circulates as" the important part here?
     
    66rounds likes this.
  15. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2012
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Gold Coast QLD
    kilo likes this.
  16. bron.suchecki

    bron.suchecki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Perth
    It has an "and" there so I think it need both circulates and accepted. Often the purpose of the inclusion of these wordings is to carve out numismatic coins, which can be legal tender just like bullion coins. I don't think the drafters of the bill are thinking about bullion - this bill is highly related to AML and AUSTRAC so I think they just want to have it use the same definitions where possible, it makes it easier for the bureaucrats to administer if the definition of cash is the same across both laws.
     
    STC and aelmsu like this.
  17. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    5,993
    Likes Received:
    862
    Trophy Points:
    113
  18. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,567
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Treasure Island
    ^
    Willrocks, love your signature :D
     
    willrocks likes this.
  19. sctpc

    sctpc Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2019
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Melbourne
    A look into the future of how Australia will come cashless
     
  20. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,567
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Treasure Island
    ^
    Dis-gus-ting
     

Share This Page