Ditto. For whatever reason, Bank of Mexico calls it that in their official numismatic product catalogue & on the packaging. So, I guess we're stuck with it for a while.. Aside from the 1-oz, would love to see them come out (apart from Apmex) with a 5-oz version, too.
Somebody bought a few sets to flip.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehWYYSksA20 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehWYYSksA20[/youtube]
I've seen some ridiculous YT Videos, but this one takes the cake. This guy refers to this thread as "massive hating" and "hate"... OK, so when somebody recognizes brazen price gouging (which doubling the selling price in under one hour definitely qualifies as) and calls it what it is, that's what this guy who calls himself "Yellow Tool" refers to as "massive hating"?????? This's the most asinine misuse of the word "hating" that I've ever seen. He also refers to the supposedly intense "negativity". I presume he thinks that when a vendor doubles selling prices in under an hour, we should all be thankful for such wonderful business practices and send them as much money in the mail as we can, and as quickly as we can do it as well. I'm sorry, but that's just mindlessness. He goes on to caution people to "...don't be caught up into bein' a window shopper, if you know what I mean..." So now $250/oz for current proof bullion is a prudent purchase for everybody---???---and everybody should buy in on this---??? No. I don't think so. This is a very pricey purchase, and because of that, it's only for diehard Libertad collectors who have lots of money to spend. If some average stacker blows $500 on this two-ounce set and either or both of the coins develop spots (which is entirely possible and an already well-known problem), Joe Average just lost the majority of his $500 investment. This set may or may not be the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel, but the price definitely keeps it from being a sensible investment for anybody other than diehard Libertad collectors with deep pockets. He also refers to Apmex as "A. P. Mex", which I thought provided a good insight into the depth of his knowledge. "Apmex" is one word--not a couple initials before a last name (like "P. T. Barnum") and it should be pronounced as one word. When you call Apmex up on the phone, their recorded call-answering message and their telephone service reps all pronounce it as one word. I don't know where "Yellow Tool" got that "A. P. Mex" stuff from. Maybe he thinks Apmex is a branch of Banco de Mexico--???
To be fair, he did say "silver stacker forums".. I don't believe he was specifically mentioning this one, but instead those in general -- others which have also shown signs of "hate & negativity" with these coins & Apmex. :lol: Anyway, what's really "odd" about this 2-coin set is the fact that, unless only 500 of the regular 2015 proofs will be minted, one could easily swap out the proof with another *non-set* proof which will cost something like $50 USD or whatever, when issued later this year -- and nobody would know the difference. Which means.. The reverse proof (along with the crappy packaging ) is technically being valued at like $450 USD. Totally worth it!
You're too kind. Being understanding with the Yellow Tool is misplaced and wasted courtesy. Having a mind, thinking for yourself and choosing to not be a mindless, drooling groupie worshipper of every shiny, stunningly expensive new coin that comes out isn't "hating" and calling it that is an adolescent and deliberate misuse of internet "cool talk". Based on Apmex's success with creating a feeding frenzy and fanning the flames with the 1oz reverse proof set this year, I can't wait to see what they pull next year. I won't be surprised to see fractional, 2oz, 5oz and maybe even kilo reverse proof sets with mind-boggling prices, but I will be surprised if they don't come out in boxes with crappy little aluminum lids desecrated with the Apmex name.
I think a lot of people agree that the reverse proof looks like a pretty nice coin. Though it has been noticed that there may be some quality issues -- specifically around the rim. To what extent, who knows.. Could be just a few, or could be many. But since these sets are only 500 *regular* proofs, with typically an annual mintage recently of 5K-8K, odds are these won't be the only (regular) proofs this year. I recall they go for about $50 USD or so? Which means again, the reverse proofs (with packaging), with a mintage of 500, are being priced at around $450 USD. That's just silly, IMO. One could do a lot with $450 USD..
Whether we think it is silly or not does not matter. The market is speaking and being in touch with what it is saying is vital to being a successful investor.
Or perhaps more important, what it *will* be saying. And of course our individual thoughts matter -- they help us to determine our own course of action. Is it truly being an investor when you immediately flip? Where does one draw the line? Are algorithm-driven computers making hundreds of HFT trades per second on Wall Street considered "investors"? And what is the market saying right now? 3 sets have sold for $400 yesterday. Yet somebody is also asking $900 OBO. Don't mind me.. Just that this set has left me & many others full of "hate & negativity." :lol: Not like Apmex was in good grace with many in the (YouTube) stacking community, to begin with. And yes, obviously I wasn't one of the lucky few who bought in the first 10 minutes.. Even then, the reverse proof alone was being priced at $150. Now, $450. If people thought the Lunar Goat Skulls were silly, at the same mintage, well..
This is of course vital as well. One has to have a feel what the future price appreciation potential of an item is. IMHO speculating that this set will see further price appreciation is probably not wise. However, the market has forcibly shown that sets/coins like this are in very high demand.
In light of last year's well received first time issuance of the 7 coin set and this year's first time issuance of the 2 coin set with the first ever Libertad 1 oz reverse proof as signs that the Mexican Mint is spreading it's wings in the numismatic market. And as far as Apmex pricing goes it's called charging what the market will bear (also known as business). Nobody is being forced to buy these sets. If you don't like the price then don't buy the product. I also don't understand why people spend so much time and are so concerned how others spend their funds. It's a fascinating study in psychology. Enjoy the day. "All things olde were once new"
I think it's not only the pricing, but how that pricing got there, that raises some people's eyebrows.. And is this not an open discussion board, where people are able to share their thoughts & opinions? But yeah, market psychology, too, is fascinating, to say the least.
APMEX is down to 18/50 sets available at the current price of $499. I don't know whether this the first group of 50 for sale at this price or not. Will be interesting to see whether they try to increase the price after this lot has sold. I realize that there is a significant amount of Libertad afficianodos, but can't imagine that they would sell at much higher than $499. Cheers, Luker
They just might get it if it turns out that only 500 reverse proofs 2 oz libertads are going to be produced. Although I wont pay that much for one even if they are only 500.
Obviously based on all of your bashing you are not a fan of Libertads, which I assume means that you are clueless about what some of the ultra low mintage coins go for. If the reverse proof coin mintage stays very low, it alone could pass that $900 USD price.
Sorry db23, don't get me wrong but I understand ChoiceBullion is big on libertads (with the 2014/2015 5 coin sets and all) but I honestly think libertads are starting to turn out into a flipper's game (and you would be clueless to deny that it is turning into that). If I recall correctly, I was the one who posted about the "exclusive" 2-coin APMEX set on BS, after learning about it thru a video on Youtube. I could have easily bought them at 199 but I guess I just don't buy into low mintages alone. Will I miss out on huge/decent profits? Sure/possibly, but I definitely won't lose sleeping knowing that I missed out on adding this coin to my collection. But hey, whatever floats your "modern" coin collecting boat!
It is not only the new sets that are going up in value....Just do a search on ngc libertads on eBay and you will see many of these coins rarely come up for sale. When they do the demand is high and the price reflects that. It is the demand that is driving the price increase....as we all know low mintage is alone not enough to drive prices higher. Yes, flippers come in on these at the beginning but that is only because they have been doing so well in the after market. With low supply and high demand it is a recipe for profits.
Heard they started at $800 USD less than 48 hours ago. Anybody got an extra $1,250 / $1,300 USD kicking around..? http://www.apmex.com/product/92345/2015-mexico-2-coin-silver-libertad-proof-reverse-pl-70-ngc-er Of course, not to be out-done.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Mexico...70-Reverse-PL70-NGC-ER-500-Sets-/331623084261
I see my purchasing decisions similarly. I don't care much or at all for a low mintage product that is poorly designed (that I don't like) in spite of the possibility that I could make a little profit from flipping it. The way I see it is if a mint is willing to put out junk, I will simply not support that junk product by not buying it. I've said it about the Perth Mint's piece of junk Gods of Olympus coins but of course there are others from various mints and many SS members have given their opinions in different threads regarding what they see as not worthy to purchase. While I like Libs (graded or not), I personally am not interested in spending between USD $1,000 and $2,500 for this 2015 set. But if someone else is, that's their prerogative and I certainly won't try to stop them. .
