The version that is going around at the moment is an incomplete version, I suggest anyone wanting to watch it wait for the official version to go up. Aus I agree this movie is more suitable for mainstream, i also recommend checking out the activist guide, personally this is what I would have recommended that someone watch prior to the lastest movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnK5mBCFTMg). Yes it seems a lot to achieve in our lifetime.. but we have to start somewhere and IMO our current system is not sustainable. It is funny, if you look at google trends the largest amount of traffic seems to come from Greece, in fact they have now started a non-profit org called 'The Pancea Org', they have big plans to start to put this stuff into practice... given this it would suggest that these ideas become more attractive when financial collapse and corruption starts to directly effect the mainstream population.
Hey wolfpack, im not sure I understand your statement? I am not aware of the UN pushing anything like this? I would be interested if you could point me to some information? As far as human nature is concerned, my belief is there is no such thing any good or bad as such.. there is just what is.. and our culture defines what is 'acceptable'.. I think religious types find this the hardest to grasp as we are supposedly all born sinners. Do you think there is any difference between a gandhi baby and a hitler baby? maybe.. or maybe it is the experiences those babies have growing up that shape those people into who they are. Robert Sapolsky who is featured in the movie is a real expert in this area, he has some real interesting lectures on Youtube for those who are interested. He has also done a few Ted Talks and is currently professor of Biological Sciences, and Professor of Neurology and Neurological Sciences, and by courtesy, Neurosurgery, at Stanford University. Sebastian Seung also did a fascinating lecture in this area on connectome's: http://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_seung.html
Interesting Dan! You are right from an atheistic, naturalistic worldview there is no such thing as objective good and evil. To say there was, would imply there was a standard behind the universe that all actions should be judged by. If humans haven't been created to act good from this objective source then they cant function good and have no fixed reference point to follow. The old debate of "ought" VS "IS". I find it strange that you cant see a difference between a Mother Teresa's actions and Hitlers. To you there is no difference? or know way to judge objectively? That just maybe in some place in the world Hitler actions were praise worthy and good. Just because some cultures differ I dont think shows there are no objective moral truths. Also saying that morality is defined by culture as what is acceptable is just as meaningless. If one holds that there is no such thing as objective good or evil, why should any one be bound by an illusion standard, the term "acceptable". If there is no objective value in anything, why do we hold the illusion of a word such as acceptable. Acceptable means nothing more than "What I want" and those who have the most power define it. Goodness seems to be turned into an illusion, an abstract empty meaningless concept we label things with. Goodness has no reference point! In fact from an evolutionist point I cant see how non-moral propertys could evolve into moral ones, or even moral awareness ones. If nature is, just what is, why have we evolved with this awareness of what we "ought" to do? If its just been conditioned on us, so has saying what "Is' just been conditioned on us. In fact if our rational processes have been produced by irrational forces or non-intelligences then why trust any of our reasoning. Survival of the fitness is not about truth contents, but just what has evolved by blind chance. Why say anything about anything? The fact that we can sense goodness, and feel evil and its destructive forces, shows that there is objective standards that breed health and safety and loving family's. Reject them and watch society grumble. Goodness is not just an empty word, its breeds health and not destruction to life. Destruction to the health of the soul i dont think can be reduced to "oh well its all relative". Show universal objective defined Love and respect and watch people grow and heal and prosper. Those who reject it, I would say are sick!. Also Im not sure you could live what you believe, could you distance yourself as nothing having ultimate value or meaning and change your mind with culture if it wished, and let your kids be raped or have there skulls hung on a sword. Would you just follow suit? If you say they would never agree to this you imply some standards seems to work, seem to be objectively better, seem to breed health, and all is not relative. Are you just saying we are conditioned with empty moral claims, that can just be changed? For me there are some things I think all people agree are wrong and always will be wrong. Culture does not decide what is right! By default there could never be a moral culture and no culture could judge another! and society could get better! A Jesus is no difference that a hitler! As for Gandi baby or hitler baby, is one the product of it genes or experiences. I think its more 50/50 plus soul traits. You can have twins, same DNA, sameness in experiences and one can turn out good the other evil. We can also fight our DNA and also impulses, Anyway, I've had my philosophy rant for the day!
Silverwise, thanks for the comments.. maybe I didn't explain myself very well.. I am not saying there isn't good behavior and bad behavior.. but you can't define good or bad behavior without a frame of reference, and that reference is our culture, once upon a time it was socially acceptable to feed people to lions for entertainment, and slavery was just an accepted part of society. I am sure in years to come our children's children will think things we do today were 'bad'. I think as humans we have common needs, safety, warmth, food, companionship, etc. meeting these needs and improving our lives in a sustainable way is 'good'. I want 'good' just like the next person, I just think the term GOOD/EVIL gets taken out of context very easily as though it is inbuilt which I don't agree with. Even twins have different experiences, one goes to school and getts picked on or beaten up.. the other doesn't.. one reads books about cars, the other doesn't read at all. we are complex creatures, if you go and sniff a flower and you get an allergic reaction and your eyes swell up for days then you will have a negative response to flowers where others might love their aroma. If a child grows up in a rasist family he/she will most likely be rasist.. if you took hitler as a baby and put im in a jewish family he wouldn't have the same disposition. Think about how things have shaped you and your views? what about before you knew about silver to now? the economy? politics? Yes we may be pre-disposed to pick up some things easier then others based on our genes, but our fate as being so called 'good' or 'bad' is not pre-determined. different cultures have different rates of crime and offences, do you think we vary that much? or is it the culture or system that encourages or brings out that behavior? Social stratification is the number one cause of crime & corruption, 95% of crimes are money related, those who have vs those who have not. Most abusers have been abused? is this their genens or because of their experiences? I encourage you to look into wild children, these are kids that have grown up with no human influence or been abused, it is heartbreaking but it has some good insights into human behavior vs nature.
Ok, here is the official release of Zeitgeist: Moving Forward [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w[/youtube]
Dan & Silverwise, good points. I watched it last night, well most of it. Havent made it right thru yet. Very mainstream stuff, just like "The Secret", great for those who've never thought these thoughts before. Otherwise I thought it was a bit of a drag. Escpecially the beginning. You cannot fix a problem with the same mind that is the problem. That statement actually solves all the questions about "could man do it", "could we live side by side and share", "we'll still have evil", "don't want the govt taking everyones property and sharing it" etc etc. At this time in our evolution, we're headed toward a brick wall, so to speak. The fiat crash of all crashes is building. We could all see that if we relaxed our fear. Ben & the boys are heading down a one way street, we can see that clearly. The crash is gonna come. And it needs to come. PM's will be our safety net for the dark years ahead. Many wont have a net, but hey, that's life. Shit happens to the best of us. We all participated in this culmination of power, greed and corruption/destruction. I think we'll look back at it and think " boy, i didn't think it'd go that far, or that fast". Now the main thrust is, that in our present state of mind, we couldn't enact a system like the Venus Project. I think that's just a precursor, a thought provoker for the fact that there has to be a better system out there for us to live and share this planet. There's gotta be a better way. We're intelligent beings. Zeitgeist & the like are just the beginnings of new ideas being thrown around. Imagine what these new ideas and new voices are going to be like when the crash comes. After 6 months or 1 year of depression, and total economic collapse. There's gonna be food riots, anti-govt riots, anti-corporation riots etc. Times will be dark and tough. And it's in these dark, tough times, that new ideas will flourish. Movements like this one will mature, become more practical and more palatable to the masses. But we as humans are still missing the point. Well most of us anyway. And you can tell by the threads of opinions in response to ideas like Zeitgeist & the Venus Project, there are still many that are missing the point. Us humans cannot setup venus projects in our current state of mind. It just won't work. Whilst we still have the words "mine" and "yours" in our vocabulary, it WON'T work. That's the next layer that's gotta be peeled off us humans. The idea of seperation from each other. That's the ultimate conn being played out now. And it too is starting to crumble. Peter Joseph exposes our religious indoctrination, our money and market indoctrination, and how we've all been hoodwinked into believing many misconceptions about our world. Well the biggest misconception has still not been revealed. It's coming, slowly, but it's still an underground swell, yet to show it's presence. We only have to look back to pre-white man invasion of lands like Australia. What's that, 250 years? Look at the race that lived here before us. Look at their "human nature". No concept of yours or mine. No concept of him v me. No concept of me and nature. Their reality was that you cannot separate me from you, or us from earth, or earth from solar system. All is one organisim biologically connected and one intelligence mentally connected. If there is no concept of owning something, because I am you and you are me, then there's also no concept of you have something I don't. If you have it, then so do I, because I am you and you are me. Sounds crazy, but it cannot be understood from a perspective of the mind. It must be seen (experienced), not thought. The last great misconception to fall, and I think we need a total collapse for it to fall, is that we are separate from each other and from the earth we're born from. That misconception was the beginning of all the pain we're now suffering. It isn't markets, money, or governments to blame. It's the idea that we must compete, because we're separate from one another. Probably started by religion, who knows. Actually, the Bible explains it in the beginning. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden ... why? .... because they chose to go with "good & evil" (duality) instead of "god" (unity). That's where the shit hit the fan. We humans are more than just thinking beings wandering around this planet with no purpose other than to live, consume, experience and die. And if u believe in re-incarnation, then to keep doing it over and over again. Pointless existence for such super intelligent beings. There is an awakening coming. An awakening of the human to his real potential. The indigenous folk of the earth held onto this reality for as long as they could, until it was destroyed by "reasoning", "socialism", "individual rights" and "nations". etc etc. A new law will be exposed. And there will only need to be one law. Our prophets through all "religions" have been espousing this law for a coupla thousand years, preparing us for it's coming. And the new law will say .... "if you do it to me, you do it to yourself". It's that simple. Once humans realise that if they hurt their neighbour, they hurt themself, or if they hurt the earth, they hurt themself, then things like the Venus Project's and whatever else comes along (cause we're very ingenious once we put our thinking caps on), will be very very easy to implement. And we'll welcome it like a new baby into the fold. We're evolving. Have been since millenia. We're on the cusp of another revelation about ourselves. The awakening is coinciding with the destruction of the old. And destroy itself it will. If you require more information about how I can be you, and you can be me, look up the likes of Eckart Tolle and multitudes of others. They'll show you how to find yourself. And when you find yourself, you discover that you don't actually exist afterall. That takes care of the me and you business. Neither actually exist. It was all a big con to set everyone against each other, and to setup the new emotions of greed, fear and hate. That's all this separation was designed to do. Pitch one man against another. And the stage was set for the situation we're in now. Great fear and panic of it all collapsing. It's the perfect plan, and it's gonna work out just right. Evolution has it's ways of working things through. I look forward to being in the dark days with you all, sitting on our PMs. Perhaps we'll have a short time of being the elite for a while. But we too, will embrace the change when it comes, because we know the old ways (current ways), aint gonna cut it for another thousand years. Let's not just crash, to repeat the same mistakes again. One head bang against the wall is enough for me to wake up. So Wake Up!
