This has been a hot topic for a while. Banks are involved in manipulating/rigging virtually every market and have been found guilty on numerous occasions. Banks also are responsible for monetary expansion (the right to produce fiat currency which creates inflation). Right now there are ongoing investigations into this exact issue by the so called "authorities". Adrian Douglass (RIP) authored a brilliant expose on the statistical changes in the price, which reveals how markets are controlled. Whilst I cannot agree with all of the author's conclusions, I do find the data compelling and clearly indicates organized centralized control. e.g. It can be downloaded here: http://www.gata.org/files/AdrianDouglasGoldMarketRigged-08-14-2010.doc Whilst I do not know if the price is "suppressed" or "inflated", because we just don't know what the price might be if these entities (a) didn't have the power to create fiat currency (b) continuously collude. I do think the likelihood given the past and on going behavior of the banks throughout all of history that the markets are indeed controlled. So what are your thoughts are the precious metals markets free or manipulated?
I think the short term and daily fluctuations is due to commercial banks/hedge funds manipulation for trading purposes. There may be an underlying long term manipulation by central banks. Just my 2c.
I'm thinking there could be two or three primary agendas and two or three groups of players working at different time frames. (1) Short-term manipulation for immediate profit. In this case what would matter is not so much the actual price, but continual volatility of the price. (2) Long-term control. Not primarily for profit, but as a tool, part of a broader, ongoing manipulation agenda covering global markets and sentiment. Ultimately, to what end? No idea. (3) Geoplitical agendas.... Not focused on day to day, month to month price manipulation, but as a weapon that may one day be used for rapid economic change, possibly as a tool of economic warfare to be used when the time is right.
That's a logical breakdown. Yes I agree, short term may be more immediate profit and we can clearly see patterns in the market such as a smack down below the open interest levels and general volatility. Sure long term, it's been open policy, since the close of the gold window and the "temporary convertibility of the dollar to gold", to intervene in the precious metals market. This policy never been repealed. The on going agenda has been long indeed from the demonetization of gold and silver to confiscation and the full implementation of fiat currency. There are those that prey on the ignorance of others to say that markets are free when in fact they have never really been free. The wider long term agenda is bigger than just money itself and regards control, direction and shape of events. So few people know who and what is really behind a central bank. Back to price theory... I do know for a fact in the past that central banks intervene and give signals to the market when they want a change in major direction especially in currencies. Everyone then jumps in on the action... and so the merry go round. I see no reason to doubt that there is massive investment in precious metals and control on the market from mining and physical to paper trading. They do after all provide their self created fiat loans to miners.
FWIW here is new video from Maloney on Gold rigging from banks [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1GJKslQNDM[/youtube]
Accredited Price Participants There are eleven price participants who have been accredited to contribute to the LBMA Gold Price: Barclays Bank, Bank of China, Goldman Sachs International, HSBC Bank USA NA, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Societe Generale, Standard Chartered, The Bank of Nova Scotia - ScotiaMocatta, The Toronto Dominion Bank and UBS. http://www.lbma.org.uk/lbma-gold-price The London Gold Fix pricing mechanism has been replaced by a new electronic LBMA price-discovery process from Friday, 20th March 2015. The price continues to be set twice daily (at 10:30 and 15:00 London GMT) in US dollars. Sterling and Euro prices are available but they are indicative prices for settlement only. The new LBMA Gold Price is operated and administered by an independent third party provider, ICE Benchmark Administration (IBA), who were chosen following consultation with market participants. :lol: IBA provides the price platform, methodology as well as the overall administration and governance for the LBMA Gold Price. The IBA's platform provides an electronic, auction-based, tradeable, auditable and fully IOSCO-compliant solution for the London bullion market. http://www.lbma.org.uk/lbma-gold-price
All markets are rigged to some degree. At least with PM they can't just print infinitely more any time they want like with fiat, bonds, certificates, stocks, options etc. Thats why I like to have the metal in my hand and avoid the "we'll keep you metal in a safe and give you a certificate for it" type of investment.
I can imagine wrcmad's face reading this thread. I wonder if he's deliberately choosing not to participate, but I'd love to hear his take on the subject.
Just took the "illuminati silver challenge" - someone let them know about this thread. a. Do you believe precious metal prices are manipulated? Absolutely. As stated in the OP, banks create money. "Their" money circulates however it's always stored with them. Money does not evaporate though assets prices can go up or down, the money exchanged for an asset still exists in the hands of the vendor. Banks concentrate power and collude. You are asking people who know very little about history thus preying on ignorance. In this video you can hear the dismissive "and of course we have seen accusation and actual incidence of manipulation in a range of markets"... emphasis on the actual... haha it was, so we already know the bias of this fellow, you could translate it as "there have been lots of accusations, but manipulation never happens though there has been the very rare case of it"... very funny indeed. He also goes on to say "we haven't made up our minds on this issue". Really? I mean really? The whole tone of the clip was one of scoffing. He is clearly an apologist and is aggressively pursuing an agenda of defending the institutions for which he/they are admittedly a part of. Hardly impartial wouldn't you say? Who paid for their houses, cars, holidays etc. And if you listen to fellow's accent you can tell he's definately not poor. So ask yourself this, why would a person of this apparent status be on youtube? (He could also be a hired performer too). b. Do you believe they are manipulated only in one direction? No. Any direction. As I stated in the OP we don't know what the price may be as the whole system is a fraud from monetary creation to pricing, loans etc. Loans are created from nothing then have performance guarantees that suits the bank. This question is designed to catch the pumpers out there. c. Who do you think are doing or carrying out these manipulations? Are you seriously stupid? Going to ignore this one. d. How do you think these are being carried out? From mining loans, forward hedging, futures etc. the entire system is backed by fiat money. The terms of this fiat money is set by bankers and in their interest. In fact markets are a way of centralizing control. e. For what purpose are these manipulations occurring? Now we are entering the realms of asking for conjecture? More ammunition to create straw-man arguments. Now let me ask these questions... a. Who specifically was behind the demonetization of gold and silver? b. When specifically where these plans made? c. Who specifically owns centrals banks e.g. the FED? d. Who specifically got the bail out money? Was it the same "groups" that own the FED? e. If the answer to d is "SAME", then are banks doing what's in their best interest at any given time? I could go on and on and on... markets are controlled period. Just ask a native that's been invaded if they have the rights to produce fiat money without being shot and killed. And you and I certainly don't have any power to create money... that power is highly concentrated in the hand of people behind these institutions. Always remember institutions are owned and operated by people, the person hood of a company is an illusion designed to diffuse responsibility of the actual people behind it. It's much easier to diffuse responsibility by saying Company X did something than lay criminal charges on those that actual did the crime. Surely it's obvious that these criminals have never been put in jail, so you already have your answer.
