Is it worth the health care costs to keep smokers alive? If you would like to comment, please stay on topic. src: http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...se/story-fneuz9ev-1226562709476#ixzz2J8AEaSWN
Call me a cynic, but here's an alternative view: Keeping people alive for longer (and healthy and functional while they are alive) means a harder working and more productive workforce. The system already spent years getting them up to working age, so they're unlikely to want them to die short of fulfilling their role in the workplace. People will ALWAYS break laws, smoke tobacco (or cannabis for that matter), eat unhealthy and do things that the system deems 'wrong'. We can come up with a million ways to curb it all, but to what end? To achieve a subordinate species willing to do whatever the law (which changes as much as the tides anyway!) tells it to do? Are we not supposed to think for ourselves? It's not going to stop. I'm not sure what the 'solution' is to stopping smoking. And to be quite frank, I'm not even sure there SHOULD be one. Give people the evidence and let them decide for themselves. I have been anti-smoking for years and don't plan on taking it up myself, but who am I to tell someone else they can't?
Here's my alternative view. Everyone should take personal responsibility for ALL their lifestyle choices. Meaning nobody is forced to pay for other people's self-inflicted problems. For example sedentary lifestyle, junk food, over-eating and other poor diet choices cause more many times more chronic health problems and premature deaths than smoking.
I agree. But we all depend on each other. No one is going to abolish medicare (that we are all contributing to) that enables those who suffer from diet and lifestyle health problems from accessing healthcare treatment. I guess the question is, do we employ a procedure to determine how people are getting sick and exclude them from health care benefits that the rest of us pay for? I have strong doubts anyone is likely to support it. btw, as a vegan, I'd like to think my lifestyle is healthier than most, but I've never scorned the thought that my medicare contributions are paying for smokers healthcare bills. Good on them. One day I might need treatment and would like to think people care enough to keep supporting medicare for my needs.
I would like to know if the taxes both as income and on the smokes that they buy would cover the health budget.
Taxes raised on the sale of smokes exceed the expenditure on the health care provided for smoking related illnesses.
Why not just let fat people die? People like dealing with effects, it's easier. It would be nice if they made ciggarettes with organic tobbacco, without addictive admixtures and flavours so at least folks have a choice in that. edit to add, my appologies for rarely staying on any topic, I like creation and evolution and dislike being restricted to boundaries, but I do try
The cost of being "civilised" is that we have to circumvent Natural Selection. Eventually those that take responsibility for their own health and welfare will have to submit to having a substantial portion of the fruits of their labour taken from them to pay for the excesses and lack of care of others. In the end I guess it is worth it.
I was just about to mention this - irrelavent in Oz, smokers already pay their own way. At 38c a stick in tax, I am surprised this current government isn't encouraging smoking to plug the deficit. Obesity, however, is a sensitive issue.
I'd be interested in having an adult conversation about obesity, weight loss and diet. The weather isn't conducive for outdoor activity and it is Sunday................ EDIT TO ADD perhaps in a separate thread would be best I should think.....
A large portion of the blame should be aimed at companies that enable unhealthy lifestyles. They should be subject to he same advertising standard and high tax as cigarette sales are. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ijukNzlUg[/youtube]
I tend to think people should take more responsibility for themselves, rather than blame corporations and the govt. The choice to eat 5h1t and not exercise is optional. It is not rocket science: In - Out = Girth We are already enough of a nanny state without anymore restrictions and taxes.
Pass legislation that all tobacco products sold in Australia must meet the same safety standards as food and drugs. Force the tobacco companies to fix their product.
Smokers save the government money because they die 6-10 years on average before non smokers. Thats 6-10 years of the government not needing to pay out a pension.
Interesting changes: http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/01/25/smokers-face-huge-obamacare-surcharge/ Obama smokes.
As a Libertarian it's simple. The one thing that anyone can say they own, and is their natural property, is their body. Legislating what someone is allowed to do with their own body is the ultimate infringement of private property rights. The important thing is that new smokers are aware of the potential risks else the tobacco companies are liable - just like with asbestos. Now that we have had a good generation or so where the information on tobacco dangers has been available this is that much of an issue anymore. Assuming the science is well founded, the passive smoking issue (when non-consenual) is a clear violation of the non-smokers property rights by the smoker hence legitimately banned. The Medicare issues arise because we are forced into the system with no opt out. Allow opt out and/or differential pricing based on the insurance costs etc then no problem.
Knowing how unlikely public and affordable health care will be in a few years anyone now would be stupid to smoke.
IMHO you'd be mad not to take care of your health full stop. Diet & exercise and going easy on the vices. Again, IMHO, obesity is not the cut and dried "Calories in Vs Calories out", nor is it due to inactivity on the part of individuals.
I have to say that I have been overweight, and smoked for 13 or so years. That did sounded bad, didn't mean it to. Anyways, free will is had by all and every decision has consequences. If you are making bad desisions and don't ask yourself what the causes of those desisions are then you will (sometimes) get effects. There are people who smoke all their lives and live to 100 and there are people who eat dead processed food and stay fit and lean it's just not the mean. Off/on topic :/ I had to miss work for a month for an operation a couple of years back. I had never had any gov benefit besides family assistance so I decided to apply for missed work dole thingy. On the application sheet it asks how much money you have saved and how much precious metal you own among other investments. I didn't bother and just took the time off on the chin, it was nice to have free hospital time and operation and care afterwards though.
