Please note, I'm not putting down those that do refine their own silver in their own back yard operations. I've actually thought about doing it myself...(until wifie gave me that look.......) But have always wondered who would buy it, based on the amount of fraudulent activities that take place with precious metals. And now knowing that an XRF machine isn't a full proof method of confirming that a bar is genuine....leads me to my opening statement
I guess it depends whether the people making the bars are just trading something they've made for fun or whether they're trying to make a small income from it. I think the amount of money and effort that you'd have to put into ripping people off is actually quite high. If you were to put a 999 silver coating over, say, a lump of copper the bar would fail the gravity test as soon as anyone cared to check it and it would also get a big thumbs down from a refiner after doing a fire assay. After that happens, any original markings or branding on the bar turns into a great big warning sign as soon as the sucker holding the fake bar posts about being ripped off on the internet. Every other bar out there with those markings becomes toxic so the scammer has burnt themselves and has to start all over again with a new product and also a new identity because everyone holding one of their fake bars will be posting "don't trade with so-and-so" messages everywhere. There is the cost of re-tooling for the scammer to consider and for what? Maybe $30 for a 1oz bar? After how much effort? I think you'd be lucky to make a couple of grand before you trash your reputation and angry people start turning up on your doorstep or filing police reports. I actually quite like the idea of people sharing things that they've made with others and wouldn't really have a problem buying small home-made bars (and I have a few from small/backyard/defunct operations as it it). Anything more than a couple of hundred bucks would exceed the amount of risk I'm prepared to take, not just in potential to get ripped off but also for liquidity in case I needed to sell them later and prospective buyers are wary about buying backyard blobs. I'd suggest that anyone having a go should think about getting a small hallmark/brand mark so others know you're prepared to "sign" your work and stand behind it.
I love the idea of melting down some less desirable examples of pre-decimal coins into a shiny one-off bar.
I'm with nugget. I wouldn't buy the backyard lump. I'd be concerned about offloading the thing and having to prove that it was legit.
Under what circumstances? I see the risks of buying home poured bars off a random eBay seller but hell I see problems with buying brand name metals on eBay when the deal looks fishy. Would I buy an interesting piece of a fellow stacker who has refined the art of melting down some silver scrap or old coinage into a more appealing bar? Hell yes I understand the dramas involved in trying to sell these bars on to dealers and refiners but see them as conversation pieces within my stack. I think if the s does htf silver will be silver and the bloke who lives close and makes nice bars could be as well recognized and trusted locally as any mint in certain circumstances. I have hand poured one offs in my stack and will continue to collect these. I would prefer to pour them myself than buy them, purely because I can buy the scrap cheaper than another stackers effort. A few generations down the road I am happier for my descendants to pass these bars on along with the story that "your great great.... Granddad poured this back when paper was money, it's the only one like it in the world" To me that has more clout than my great great..... Granddad bought this dragon for a rediculous premium all those years ago and there's only hundreds of thousands of them made. I would be lining up for some of SY@PS' bars yesterday if I was in oz. I really respect the workmanship that goes into these products and from some posts on the hand pours thread regarding "mintages" I think there's definitely room for appreciation on the art angle as silver rises. As I see his work as an original where as minted coins are a print in all reality. What would the premium be for a 1oz gold bar from someone making Similar products similar in gold 10years ago? Edit: please excuse the grammar, I've had a couple. (be nice, remember it's a bit later in NZ, thought this was easier than trying to fix the boo boos)
Probably not. I would have trouble trusting the seller. It would involve extra work to prove it was genuine. It cuts down the number of people who I could sell it to and I can buy a similar item with a brand name which is well trusted and easy to sell on. However if we are talking about something beyond a poured loaf then I would think about it, I was looking at pouring something like these out of my 50% predec. Source: http://dragonartworks.com/art-gallery/lucky-chinese-dragon-statue-p-75.html or Source: http://www.google.com.au/imgres?sta...dsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:295,i:34&tx=112&ty=69 But ran out of time, and space and ability, I still have the predec though.
I believe I read a post sometime ago that a sight sponsor captain Kookaburra does his own melting. And with Gold Pelican intruducing the ss round - maybe the guys can get together and introduce a ss hand pour bar for a small melting fee. I think if hand pour bars were done by administrators (or site sponsors), this would eleviate any doubt that the bars were genuine. Stackers could send their scrap metals in for refining and have a nice hand pour bar returned to them with ss on it with a purity stamp (925 , 999) Maybe even have a representative from each state thats prepared to melt and use the ss logo with admins approval. This would save postage cost. I'm sure most of us on this sight wouldn't hesitate buying a ss hand pour bar plus also believe there wouldn't be to much of an issue re-selling.
Who would buy a hand poured bar from a back yarder ? The same people who buy stuff from fraudsters on ebay or directly from China Those that believe that the deal that is too good to be true really is true this time I think the technical term is 'suckers' If you don't think lead can look shiny just like silver, take a look at some lead sinkers in the fishing dept one day
So this really does come right back to "trusted seller". I don't trust ebay, but I do trust those that I've done lots of business with and have always come through.
Wow . . . . I have bought hand poured bars AND MCC's directly from China. I guess 2 out of 3 makes me a sucker. Some of us just don't always think everyone is out to get us, and if you don't think hand pours have a market, try selling some, I bet you will have no problem!
I tried re-selling one on here (140g .925 - proof by acid test) at 15% under spot without any sensationalism. Didn't sell. Not going to waste my time with that kind of crap again. Would work if you're a trusted seller / or a signature pour I guess?
Every silver company (that isn't government backed) starts out with no reputation and no customers. They may not have started in a backyard, but I bet some did...
