What hurts the coin collecting hobby

Discussion in 'Numismatics' started by TreasureHunter, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. JNS

    JNS Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Numismatic hobby starts to die year by year, very few young collector engage on this lifetime endeavor.
    In Asian countries except Singapore and HK, gold and silver coins are hard to reach.

    Central banks incharge of minting numismatic or commemorative coins don't even advertise or even encourage masses on the coin collecting.
    Their coin program is ill, no media exposure, most of the time, it is hoarded by scrupulous dealer who keep them and sell afterwards in higher premium.

    Coins/Fiat or true "Money" are not even discussed in school curriculum such as history subjects.
    They are simply sanitized from text books.
    Books store shelves, magazine shelves simply not fun on coins.
    Coins stores are also beyond reach in most of asian countries, miles and miles away - so not popular.
    Young children not even bother to check what inside because you can only meet an old man sitting quietly inside.

    Social media sucks, flooded by flippers who took advantage of young collectors.
    Fakes are all around, ebays and other online stores.

    I just came from New Orleans trip, got an opportunity to visit some coin stores.
    Feel bad because these stores does not even exist in Asian culture setup.
    Asian numismatist populations is simply on the verge of extinction.
    Hardcore and badass collectors are simply getting old and no young collectors emerging for replacement.
     
  2. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    True: the numismatic hobby is dying.

    Only "nerd retards" collect coins:
    People think you're some sort of a "nut" for collecting coins. Like some nerd collecting stamps :confused:
    People will laugh you in the face. They don't see the historical value, nor the aesthetical value in coins. And then you keep explaining and they laugh you in the face.

    No new interesting coins are in circulation:
    Almost nothing new that's interesting ever appears in circulation.
    The coins that circulate today are like trinkets. Euro coins... they're clones with no soul, no character.
    Except a few exotic coins. Reason why I love coins from various countries that give character to their coins: Japan, Singapore, Morocco, Malaysia...

    There were more currencies, more coins, thus more excitement 25-30 years ago:
    No Deutschmark, no Pesetas, no Escudos. They're all EUROs. And besides a few national cliches on the Euro coins, they're variations to the same theme.

    "Special edition" coins, "commemorative" coins are ridiculous, a dime a dozen:
    Countless coins appear, kitsch, Star Wars, Star Trek, 10 year from this, 20 years from that, 25 years from Pope John Paul II scratching his left ear on floor nr.3 in some palace in Rome... you get it. They have no unique value. And the mintages are huge (for the sake of profit)..

    The new trend is coinless:
    Cashless is one thing, but coinless is even more encouraged. Cashiers hate coins, so do people who struggle to count them and calculate (modern man needs a smartphone to calculate 100+100). People are willfully getting rid of their coins. So, the coin is perceived as some "annoying" change.

    But let me tell you something that (at least seems to have) died 1-2 decades ago: collecting stamps.
     
  3. Silverling

    Silverling Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    There is a couple of things that come to mind for me. We here in Australia always have to pay more for just about anything and with silver coins it is no different. For example in the USA you can buy silver coins from a bullion company for .63c an over spot for brand new rounds, you can see that at this link: https://www.jmbullion.com/silver/silver-rounds/all-silver-rounds/# In this example USD spot price is $17.10 and price of the cheapest new silver round is $17.73 a .63c markup.

    In Australia we have to pay nearly $5 over spot for a brand new kangaroo. Sure the kangaroo has a $1 face value but at the end of the day the cash in price over the counter at a bullion shop will be the same. i.e Bullion Now will pay spot for any 1 oz 999 silver coin. So why is the Australian bullion shops charging us so much premium for basic coins? i.e. AUD spot price is $24.82 and the cheapest bullion coin is a kangaroo @ $29.60, a $4.78 markup. Link here for quote: https://www.ainsliebullion.com.au/products/silver-bullion/tabid/85/type/2/default.aspx That is a 400% more premium than the USA citizens have to pay.

    The next thing is support from the Perth Mint. There is no follow up with after care of our coins. For example I am current trying to source some 2 oz series 2 lunar capsules to replace cracked ones that I have. I need the original Perth Mint ones so they match all the others. You can not buy these anywhere. Makes me think why would anyone invest in 2 oz lunar coins when you can't get replacement capsules for them? I wrote to Perth Mint Bullion direct only to be told they won't sell them to the general public. That is pretty poor form from the manufacturer of this coin.

    Really with milk spots, other spots, finger prints on coins and unable to buy accessories like capsules for these coins it can leave a buyer or collector thinking is it really worth buying them?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
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  4. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    What comes to my mind about Perth Mint:

    - indeed, some of their coins come with milk spots (Canadian an US coins as well)... I can't comprehend how they can't treat the problem
    - their bars have poor quality Certicards: not perfectly aligned, just "stuck together", as if they were thrown together and hot-ironed together (many of the top and bottom plastic plaques don't cover each other well or are dislocated) - is it really that complicated to solve this technical issue? (Chinese fakes are sometimes better lookin'!)
    - indeed, they don't sell replacement coin capsules
    - it's annoying that certain encapsulated coins come without tubes and you will never find tubes for them ANYWHERE (concrete case: 1 oz Lunar Dragons), because of the unusual size of the capsules/coins (they don't fit into anything else out there on the market)
    - some of their Kookaburras look ridiculously childish (the design of the 2013 Kookaburra, if you can recall it... the birds look like they were designed by 8th graders)

    Congrats Perth Mint!
     
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  5. JNS

    JNS Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I frequently visit every 3 months in China, I stayed a month in Jiangyin Province near Shanghai, I was able to befriend to a receptionist who become my translator in buying coins online. They were really surprised why i am buying Chinese coins. Even young generations doesn't know the Panda coins.
    Just after my work i have a daily excitement where packages are ready to be fetch in the hotel reception area for unboxing.
    The truth is, even in China, the numismatic population is so miniscule to consider.
    Some old numismatic coins stores around are simply no interest to visit by locals.

    Every vacant time, as a sort of my relaxation, i went to mall and supermarkets. I was surprised that ordinary workers and laborers using mobile phone, swiping and paying. Old people with big callous fingers that can't go simply through the phone icons are using those applications. Yes, plastic cards are normal for me, but i still use fiat on paying small transactions. Old guys in queue at grocery counters just swiping their mobile phones so quickly. Cash is seldom to see on the hand of the masses.

    24K Jewelries, Jades and private mint bars are more common for the masses. The Gold-silver coins is just a relic way of storing value for them.
    In common sense, they would rather pay manufacturing premium on fine jewelries rather than in coins. Most of them do not believe in numismatic premium and some are telling that we are the one pushing (the international buyers) the demand that makes the price high. International dealers hoard them then flood them outside China market at their will. Simply on their side, there is no such local demand. As he point out the flooded listing on their local online stores on his phone. He also show me some of the local active dealers that are competing then reselling them to international dealers.

    I interact with a lot of people every day in China, they were professionals, workers and mixed status laborers in populations, but no one i found interested in coin collecting particularly numismatic, the common answer, "yes...you can find or order it on the bank".

    In China, where coin collecting should be popular that we use to know but opposite to what i observed in their demographics.
     
  6. sgbuyer

    sgbuyer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm not surprised. The East Asian society has become ultra materialistic in which anything that you can't use to flaunt your wealth in public is not interesting. The same reason why people sell their kidney to buy the newest iPhone, because you can show it to your friends. The wealthy will buy mansions, sports cars and $100k-$200k richard miles watches, anything that is visible and makes a statement. There was a Singapore furniture maker that made a fortune selling $20k-$100k sofas in China.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
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  7. SteelHand

    SteelHand Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Try contacting Ultimacash, he may be able to assist you or perhaps Dragafem, he helped me out with some 10oz Kook capsules when I cracked mine
     
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  8. Silverling

    Silverling Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ^Thanks already have.^

    So far I have contacted, Perth Mint Bullion (will not sell to public), Air tite USA (only go to 50 mm), Ainslie, Downies and Goldstackers, still waiting for Goldstackers to get back to me but all the others don't have any. Pretty bad that I can not buy a replacement Perth Mint capsule (2 oz series 2 lunar 55.6mm) capsule for my 2 oz coins anywhere. Some places do have these capsules with either white or black rings in them but that is not original and will stick out like a sore thumb, just doesn't look right.

    So all you people who collect 2 oz lunars be warned you won't find any spare capsules in Australia or the rest of the world. Fancy that, Perth Mint Bullion selling the coins but won't sell you the capsules, unbelievable.:eek:

    If anyone has a few spares I would be happy to buy them off you and pay for the postage too.:):)
     
  9. slavaja

    slavaja Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Are you talking about gold or silver 2 oz lunars?
     
  10. Silverling

    Silverling Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  11. slavaja

    slavaja Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yeah I feel ya I'm looking for a S1 2oz gold lunar case as well with no luck
     
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  12. Silverling

    Silverling Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    @TreasureHunter sorry I hijacked the thread a bit about my capsules but I have some good news. @ultimacash suggested that I contact @Gold Stackers which I did. They got back to me today and they did have some spare 2 oz series 2 silver bullion coin capsules. I put in an order and I am a happy camper again. Thank you to all those that helped and read my messages, that's why I love this forum. Merry Christmas everyone.:)
     
  13. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    No, you did not "hijack the thread", no need to apologize, bro. ;)

    You made some strong points and indeed, the lack of spare capsules also hurts this hobby. It's sad and annoying.

    What I've found extremely annoying is that encapsulated coins don't come in tubes and once you have them, they're just "flying loose".
    There aren't any adequate tubes for various encap coins like: 1 oz Silver Lunar Dragons, 1 oz Cook Islands coins etc.

    ...unless you buy pipes and cut your own tubes! It will be difficult to find caps for both open ends, though...
     
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