What are Grading and Conservation? AKA, What are NCS, NGC, and PCGS?

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by tamo42, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I wanna be ELITE! :)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. tamo42

    tamo42 New Member

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    LOL, that's creepy and awesome all at the same time.
     
  3. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    Awesome pic yennus.

    Just thought that I might add a MS70 by PCGS doesn't guarantee a MS70 by NGC upon re-certification and grading.

    Anyway I bought some PCGS MS69 Gold pandas... will see how pretty they are when they arrive. Might be converted to a slabbed panda collector? O_O

    ps. How do you search PCGS site for population? I can search on NGC if I plug in the number but PCGS need to subscribe?

    Looked at the collector 'sets' registry thingy and saw some MS69 with "Pop Higher" as 0 and population < 20. Winner? :p

    Eg. http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset.aspx?s=76517
     
  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  5. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    Yeah its broken, but nvm I'll keep an eye on it.

    What's better, PCGS or NGC?
     
  6. comeaux

    comeaux New Member Silver Stacker

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    Hey fishball ! :D
    Hey congrats on your graded gold pandas !!!

    I don't want to dissuade you from PCGS just because I don't care for them much. I just want you to look at your coins in both holders side by side (NGC & PCGS) and see which one is more appealing.

    If you go to the CCF and see their poll taken it was landslide vote in support of NGC.

    There were several reasons but some of the reasons members voted NGC is because of their holder is very smooth and clear and also allows for a view of the entire coin including the edge.

    Another reason the Chinese Coin Collectors like NGC is that NGC was very proactive in recognizing all of the variations in Chinese Pandas such as "Large Date", "Small Date", "No Serif", "Plain 1", etc

    It's true that PCGS has recently begin to use the same identification techniques but they are far behind in many opinions when it comes to Chinese coins and the general appearance of their holders.

    I just wanted to let you know now while you are just starting to collect the graded coins or possibly haven't invested too deeply in them yet. Then again you may prefer PCGS it's all a matter of preference.

    PCGS is known for being far superior in US coins and also for giving out less 70's but then again I think they are being way to strict in many ways Some coins that have 100,000 or more minted in a year and they are going to tell me that there was never one coin in that particular year to ever be good enough for a 70? Not one ?

    When I first began collecting I did have many PCGS graded pandas but I have now crossed them all over to NGC. Neither company, NGC or PCGS will crossover a 70 and they have even become apprehensive about crossing any Chinese coins over in fact NGC rejected my last 3 PCGS Pandas I submitted for crossover. In fact I will probably sell these 3 as I don't want 3 PCGS to infect my collection of NGC slabs :)

    Like I said, it is all a matter of preference but before you get many coins of either grading company, look carefully at both of them side by side. Then again, you may actually like the PCGS slabs if so I have three to sell at a good price ! :)
     
  7. rick_au

    rick_au Member

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    The premium membership is looking tempting with the free 5 gradings. Is there a limit you can send to them at a time? Because as you said logically it would be cheaper to mail off as many coins in one bulk package in order to reduce the postage cost for each coin.
     
  8. rick_au

    rick_au Member

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    I think typically PCGS has been regarded as superior however their focus is more on US coins. From what I have read NGC is better for Pandas since they specialise in them and the general perception is that they are more recognised with Pandas.
     
  9. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks for the info... will take a look and compare them :)
     
  10. Ouch

    Ouch Active Member

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    What I'd like to know is how do you guys package the coins to minimize damage during transit and what postal/courier service that you use? Lots of pictures would be helpful especially re the packaging. Thank you.
     
  11. tamo42

    tamo42 New Member

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    I generally vacuum seal them with my kitchen vacuum sealer.
     
  12. comeaux

    comeaux New Member Silver Stacker

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    wow that is a great idea ! I never thought of that.

    Seems like an effective method of storing raw coins as well ... vacuum sealed = zero air = no oxidation ??!!!
     
  13. Thor122

    Thor122 New Member

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    Excellent data. Thank you
     
  14. tamo42

    tamo42 New Member

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    I'm not sure it's 100% effective, but it's pretty good.
     
  15. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks for this, I have always been wary of sending over coins for grading.

    I would like to send over some dragons but I am convinced that they will swap my perfect dragons for a prefered customer's flawed ones and I will only get 69s and not 70s.

    I think it is less of a problem with the non-items such as a byzantine gold coin but then I don't trust the Australian / USA postal service not to lose them in transit.

    I have been tempted a few times but never enough to send any. I tried to get a group together from the local coin club so that we could all chip in for the best insurance etc. but slabbing is not as accepted over here than it is in America. I think we have more hobbiests:Investors than America and it is seen as a lack of skill not to be able to grade your own coins.

    Do you know much about some of the other slabbing companies? I know that some companies are not third party graders and they grade their own coins for sale http://coins.about.com/od/coinbuyingadvice/qt/ebay_coin_fraud.htm
     
  16. comeaux

    comeaux New Member Silver Stacker

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    The article in your link states this ...
    The Three Tiers of Grading Services - Coin grading and encapsulation services are generally regarded as belonging to one of three tiers:
    Top Tier - PCGS and NGC
    Second Tier - ANACS and ICG
    Third Tier - All others, including ACG, INB, NTC, PCI, SEGS, SGS, etc.

    Just stick with the "top tier" and you will not have to worry about stolen coins, fraud, etc ...
     
  17. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Cheers, I had heard to avoid SGS though I can't say that I have any evidence that they are doing anything wrong.

    I also saw some fake coins in fake slabs in a report on Chinese Fakes http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/Fake-Chinese-Slabs.htm

    I think that the time I nearly took the plunge was with PCGS, a Sydney dealer was acting as a go-between but I didn't have any coins on me at that time, plus I had to send in seperate submissions for Gold, American and World coins so it was too much effort!
     
  18. comeaux

    comeaux New Member Silver Stacker

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    IMO I think a "middleman" is a waste when submitting coins, if anyone would pull the "coin swap" for your 69's and 70's ... this is where it would happen. :) unless you know this person very well. You can do this yourself ...

    I'm not saying this will happen as there are many reputable dealers but I have read and seen enough to know there are many sketchy dealers as well.

    Fake slabs ? yea they appear but are extremely obvious to even a novice collector.
     
  19. comeaux

    comeaux New Member Silver Stacker

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    I was getting bored a few days ago waiting on a shipment of some gold panda NGC submissions so I dug around in my safe and scraped up some loose pandas not in sheets and figured I would submit a few.

    Here is a step by step process so you can see how easy it is.
    I think I posted the process here before but this time with some pics


    1. Lay my coins out and get photos I also take an individual photo of each coin as well.

    [​IMG]

    2. Complete the NCS form with the description of each coin I am submitting

    [​IMG]


    3. Use envelope labels and print the number for each coin in order of listing on NCS form and attach a label on each coin (on the plastic, not directly on coin)

    [​IMG]

    4. Package coins up in a small box (free box) for extra protection

    [​IMG]

    5. Put box in Fedex (or whatever shipping company) envelope and ship.

    [​IMG]

    Notice the last coin ... the 1989 Panda as it has substantial toning around the rim ... it will come back from NCS looking like the day it was minted ! :)
     
  20. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Wow! This is truly very cool and informative!

    Thank you so much for sharing this info with us Comeaux!

    I feel much more comfortable sending stuff to NCS and NGC now! Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be signing up with NCS and then sending off a bunch of stuff for grading!

    Thanks again!
     

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