WAY over my head!

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by Old Codger, May 18, 2013.

  1. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    You asked for the source of the data I used to state that the EU monetary base and excess reserves were both declining, indicating the destruction of the new euro's that were created:
    "Interesting if true. I haven't gotten around to finding the relevant data series from the ECB to calculate true money supply. Can you point me in the right direction?"
    I gave the sources on the ECB site.

    Your 'answer' was:
    "Edit: Those Euro statistics seem to be the internal liquidity management funds. I'm not exactly sure what they are."

    I then linked you an explanation for the ILM:
    Internal Liquidity Management is not the name of a fund but a description of what the ECB, as a central bank, does within the monetary/financial system built around ECB.
    This is a good explanation:
    http://libertystreeteconomics.newyo...w-global-banks-manage-liquidity-globally.html

    Your 'answer' was:
    You've raised a plethora of individual questions/issues but I can answer this one quite easily.

    Despite your questions, you surely don't appear as to be interested in the given answers.
    The EU monetary base and excess reserves dropped big time since the peak of mid last year.
    Meaning that the EU equivalent of the US 'Quantitative Easings', were for a big part undone. Scrapped. Destroyed.
    And as I said and shown along charts, draw a line from the latest plot on the chart to a 2008 plot, and that line has the same angle as the trend before 2008 had.
    Just like the US, where the net monetary base minus excess reserves, also is just a continuation of the existing trendline, an angle of maybe a couple % more, much less than the monetary base trend itself suggests, due to it having excess reserves as a component.
    So if the same happens there as in the EU happened, those excess reserves being destroyed, and the monetary base level suddenly sitting on the same trendline as pre 2008, alike the QE's never happened.
    Is there anything in above you don't understand?
    Do you think anything in above is wrong?
    Because that is discussing, 'Wow' and 'You've raised a plethora of individual questions/issues' is not.

    As you say, it's money available.
    Now tell me, imagine you had a can Coke. You open it and drink some. Will you open another can if the first isn't empty yet? I assume no?
    The same applies to the money supplies. If the monetary base, upon which all the rest is piled up, shrinks, then it means that people spend less dollars from their cash and current accounts. Why would they spend the 'wider' monetary resources then?
    If you have enough dollars on your current account, would you pay with dollars from your savings account? I assume no?
    Well, the same applies to the narrowest>widest money supplies.
    As said, the narrowest, being the monetary base, is most likely to be spent and thus most likely to cause price inflation. The wider money supplies, that add other and longer term monetary resources, are least likely to be spent, for the same reason as in the analogy with the current or savings account dollars choice when wanting to pay something.

    So as you can see, I'm not saying that the wider monetary resources are not price inflationary, I'm saying that they are least likely to be spent, and IF they got spent, then before that, excess reserves will have been spent first. As shown with the figures, excess reserves weren't spent, and we indeed didnt see the price inflation since 2008 as if they would have been spent.
    And furthermore, on the EU side, half of the excess reserves, were destroyed instead. Just like they were created from nothing, they went again into the void. They were never spent in the economy. IF they had been spent in the economy, we would have seen the monetary base rising or holding with the dropping excess reserves. Both dropped together. Point made.
     
  2. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    This is a shorter and simpler explanation of the same:
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/08/03/the_monetary_base_is_irrelevant.html
    [​IMG]
    I hope it helps you to change the topic title haha.
     
  3. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Because it's still coke. It is money available and there is no distinction in terms of the way it is spent. Any further storyline based on the assumption that the two types of money in people's hands is different is then based on a flawed distinction.
     
  4. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    Do you open a second can coke without drinking the first one empty?
    Why would anyone spend money from their bank savings account if the money on their bank current account suffices to make the payment?
    The same applies to the money supply, if there are alot excess reserves, then those get spent first, and only thereafter 'wider', longer term - intended monetary resources.
    So if excess reserves already arent spent, as the data indicates, then it just means that there is no demand to spend them. The minimum/required reserves already sufficed. And this in turn mean that if the central bank wants, it can just destroy these excess reserves again, which is what is already happening at the ECB, halve of excess reserves gone, 225 of the 450 billion euro's edited away, as simple as they were edited into place a year ago. Those that assumed that they would have added to the amount circulating euro's, well, didnt happen.
     
  5. Eureka Moments

    Eureka Moments Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Well named thread.

    Stan the Statistician has me utterly befuddled. :rolleyes:
     
  6. wrcmad

    wrcmad Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yep. :p
     
  7. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I don't know what you are defining as savings account vs current account but the true money supply is the measure of all the money available to be spent. It is what I can physically use to buy a can of coke. The Fed/ECB etc money is a component of the money available but definitely not all of it.

    The central bank liquidity funds etc are not the whole story with respect to inflation, but can be interesting stories nonetheless.
     
  8. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    AFAIK, 'Money Supply' (M1) is broken up into Cash in Circulation, and money 'at call', which is bank accounts, savings and cheque accounts that can be withdrawn and spent immediately.

    The next level (M2) is money on fixed deposit that may be available in 30 days or 90 days or whatever, then there is money available via the sale of Bonds, shares etc.

    Those two are the most important.

    What I cannot understand is how and why the Trillion a year Uncle Ben is 'printing' is not finding its way almost directly into M1 or M2. It is being SPENT (and handed out to zombies) by the government and is thus 'in circulation'. It is not simply being handed over to the big banks to stick in 'Reserves'. Is Walmart flogging stuff off, and depositing the cash in the bank to put in its 'reserves'? A bank makes money by lending it out, not by sitting on it!

    WHY isn't the US Money supply going up by at least a Trillion a year? Is the US Treasury removing a Trillion a year in Greenbacks from circulation? I have never heard that claimed.

    I am STILL confused!


    OC
     
  9. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That's basically correct. Rothbard argued about some of the specifics but the outcome is that TMS is broadly equal to M1.

    AFAIK the first issue was the credit crunch at the start of the GFC:
    (a) reduced the inter-bank liquidity as banks didn't know who to trust
    (b) crushed the value of their assets through the losses in the value of the non-cash (non-reserve) assets. Broadly the value of assets like the mortgage backed securities (MBS) which had been monetised by the private banking system became worthless on the open market (you may remember there was a bit of hullabulloo about the banks not marking to market the value of the MBS' early into the GFC - this was because if they had done so they would have been insolvent).

    Both of these things resulted in the central banks injecting liquidity back into the banking system by essentially taking over loans between banks, the direct asset purchases (at or near book value) and the open currency swaps.

    As a consequence of these actions, the bank's excess reserves increased - an increase exactly equal to the amount of the loans.

    A good way to envisage it is that part of Bank A's balance sheet is a loan to Bank B of, say, $50 (and part of Bank B's liabilities is $50 owed to Bank A). The GFC caused angst about the credit-worthiness of Bank B but rather than Bank A calling in the loan (and effectively deleting the money from the system) the Central Bank stepped in as guarantor and bought the $50 loan.

    So
    - Bank A now has increased it's reserves by $50 (by replacing the bank loan on its Assets register with Central Bank cash).
    - Bank B still has a debt of $50, but it is now due to the Central Bank.
    - The Central Bank has stepped in as intermediary and debited and credited both sides of it's balance sheet with $50 - cash out of $50 and a loan asset of $50. If Bank A doesn't extract/loan out the cash then it sits on the books as an "excess reserve". (Bank A still needs the asset to remain solvent but has shifted what the asset is.)

    Hence, reserves have increased by $50 because an A<--B transaction has become A<--C<--B transaction.

    Consequently, as I have tried to say, the presence of absence of the excess reserves is an interesting story (largely around liquidity issues) but in and of itself the dramatic buildup of excess reserves does not convey information about the the impact on broader money supply (i.e. inflation) or economic activity. I believe the Fed is currently paying interest (~0.25%, I think) on the reserves which presumably increases it's influence on it's goal of setting short term market interest rates. If it didn't pay interest then I strongly suspect that the the large amount of cash in the banks hands would undermine the Central Bank's ability to set the short term interest rate.
     
  10. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Here are dummy balance sheets for the above example.

    [​IMG]

    Excess reserves increase by the Central Bank taking on the role as intermediary to increase liquidity but the financial position of the individual banks does not change. Essentially the deflationary pressures of the FRB money-equivalent being destroyed when Bank A calls in the loan to Bank B has been averted by the Central Bank monetising the loan with official fiat money. Ignoring any other implications this is one of the reasons for the central banks existence.

    If Bank A is willing to buy back Bank B's loan then the excess reserves are effectively deleted by undoing the transaction.
     
  11. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Thanks for that, well presented.

    OC
     
  12. Rinchin

    Rinchin New Member

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    Bordsilver. Do the banks have to keep these reserves as cash $ or could they hold gold in reserve to cover their reqquirements? Especially with the recent promotion of gold to tier one asset?
     
  13. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    At risk of getting out of my depth and getting my nomenclature wrong (and I'm unsure how much the rules change between jurisdictions), but there are basically two elements:
    1. Reserve ratio requirements.
    2. Other regulatory requirements under Basel III such as Tier 1 capital ratios, liquidity requirements and leverage ratios.

    The Reserve ratio requirements basically set the minimum amount of cash in the banks vaults (or in the Fed Reserves vaults) relative to the amount of their demand deposits. Hence, for every $100 in people's on-demand savings accounts they may only have to hold $10 in actual cash. The other $90 is lent out (or speculated with) in order to generate income. I believe the "vault cash" and the Central Bank deposits are the only things that can be kept to maintain the minimum reserve ratio requirements. At the end of every day, the banks calculate their reserve ratio. If they don't have enough (because they loaned out too much, or savers withdrew too much cash) then they have to borrow enough cash from someone (another bank, or the Central Bank) to meet the ratio (or else fudge the accounts, which no doubt happens). Borrowing from other banks on the overnight market is generally the first point of call as then you do not need to tell the central bank that you screwed up and are noncompliant (who typically take a dim view of serial "offenders").

    As we discussed in Hawkeye's thread from a couple of months ago, the Reserve Requirements just show that banks are fundamentally insolvent. The other regulatory requirements through things such as Basel III are additional measures of the "robustness" of a bank to things like a run of bad loans or short term friction in credit markets. The Tier 1 assets are used to calculate the Tier 1 capital ratio which is the ratio of a bank's core equity capital to its total risk-weighted assets. A higher ratio means that they can supposedly weather more negative events such as bad loans.

    Assets like cash typically have a zero risk weight, while certain loans have a risk weight at 100% of their face value and hence can't be used to meet the Tier 1 capital ratio. The promotion of gold (which I didn't realise had actually happened yet) basically changes it's risk weighting and merit order in the types of assets that banks can use to meet their Tier 1 capital ratio requirements. Like cash sitting on the banks books, gold doesn't generate any income for the bank, hence despite it's promotion I doubt it is being viewed significantly differently to alternative Tier 1 assets.

    Does that help? OC may be able to confirm/deny.
     
  14. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

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    I'd never thought of it like this, but I think you may be right here.

    Setting the interest rate is of course the wrong term, the CB enters the market by buying or selling in order to manipulate the interest rate up or down. The "Reserve Bank has set the interest rate at x" is just a nice bit of propaganda for the media and masses to disguise it's true actions.

    The other thing of course to mention with the CB buying up bad debt is the moral hazard question. It sanctions and encourages bad behaviour.
     
  15. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ^ Sorry. Slipped into MSM speak. :)

    The ramifications of the liquidity etc actions are many and varied (including the moral hazard issue).
     
  16. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    A savings account is the bank account you put your money for the long term. It gives the intrest rate determined by the central bank.
    A current account is the bank account you transfer money from to pay others, or withdraw cash from. It's also the bank account on which your employer pays you and on which you receive others payments. It gives nearly no intrest.
    For ex in my country you can't pay anything with money on the savings account, you first have to transfer it to your current account, and only then you can withdraw it as cash, or pay with it as a bank transfer.

    The current account is most likely to be spent in the near future.
    The savings account is much less likely to be spent in the near future, and in case fixed money for X years, the bank may give you a penalty cost if you prematurely end it.
    On the savings account, you can 'fix' money for X years, and you get a little higher intrest as a method to make you do this.
    The different money supplies (Base, M1 and onwards) go from narrow to wide. Every wider one adds longer term / less likely to be spent in near future balances.
    The current price inflation, is mostly determined by the narrowest money supply, being the monetary base, which holds the current accounts (and also cash-banknotes-coins).
    Every higher numbered money supply is less likely to be spent and thus less price inflationary.

    Banks that have enough dollars to meet required reserve ratio, move the surplus to their account at the central bank, in the Excess Reserves pool. The central bank uses then an intrest rate on it, to control the lending out of the longer term saved money, and thus to control price inflation. By manipulating that intrest rate, negative over zero to positive, the central bank can reward or punish banks that lend more out.

    Excess Reserves can be destroyed at any time. Since they are not needed to meet the legal requirements (required reserves, being the 'fraction' of the fractional reserve banking system). As long as not too much longer term savers withdraw/spend their savings account simultaneously. The central bank tries to control that behaviour of bank savers, if they notice that too many people start to spend their savings, they increase the intrest rate on savings, as to reward those that don't spend and keep the money on the savings account. And vice versa, if the central bank wants savers to spend, then they drop the intrest rate on savings. Of course, this intrest rate on savings is coupled to the intrest rate to borrow. Lending out at 8% and giving savers only 1% would make savers angry and they might withdraw their money. This intrest rates spread isn't fixed but limited within what is 'acceptable' for people. This coupling between the lending/savings intrest rates poses the central bank a problem, it limits the speed at which the central bank can erase debt and in case alot debt, this can become problematic, since moving the savings intrest to zero or even lower, can cause bank depositors, that now have to pay the bank to lend their money out, to get angry, and withdraw/spend, which can quickly cause severe price inflation upto hyperinflation.
    And thus, the remaining option in that case for central banks is to just block the spending. That's what those bank 'holidays' are, why they close bank offices, why they limit transactions, why they guarantee only 100,000 euro in EU (the rest not, so if you saved 200,000 euro to buy an average house, you lose halve of it and are thus unable to buy the house without lending), and why they even directly confiscate (case Cyprus).
    Since that remaining option is 'brutal', bank depositors obviously don't like it, the central bank found a smarter method: Excess Reserves. For every new QE dollar that enters circulation, an existing saved dollar is moved by common banks towards their Excess Reserves account at the Central Bank. So, the inflationary effect of the new QE dollar is undone by removing the inflationary effect of an existing dollar. Also, IF too many bank depositors simultaneously try to withdraw/spend from their savings account, the Central Bank can deadstop it right there, by changing the intrest rate between common and central bank as to inflict banks big penalties when being 'loose' with the savings accounts dollars.
    Later on, when the central bank thinks that the risk of depositors spending en masse, is gone, they can just destroy those Excess Reserves. There is a small example of that on the dollar side:

    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/EXCRESNS.txt
    EXCRESNS
    1990-12-01 1.665
    1991-01-01 2.141
    1991-02-01 1.805
    1991-03-01 1.182
    1991-04-01 1.029
    1991-05-01 1.035
    1991-06-01 0.996
    1991-07-01 0.905
    1991-08-01 1.085
    1991-09-01 0.934
    1991-10-01 1.057
    1991-11-01 0.893
    1991-12-01 0.990
    1992-01-01 0.993
    1992-02-01 1.046
    1992-03-01 1.026
    1992-04-01 1.134
    1992-05-01 1.004
    1992-06-01 0.924
    1992-07-01 0.976
    1992-08-01 0.940
    1992-09-01 1.015
    1992-10-01 1.063
    1992-11-01 1.043
    1992-12-01 1.155
    1993-01-01 1.263
    1993-02-01 1.093
    1993-03-01 1.233
    1993-04-01 1.103
    1993-05-01 0.999
    1993-06-01 0.896
    1993-07-01 1.068
    1993-08-01 0.953
    1993-09-01 1.087
    1993-10-01 1.078
    1993-11-01 1.120
    1993-12-01 1.070
    1994-01-01 1.460
    1994-02-01 1.149
    1994-03-01 0.984
    1994-04-01 1.142
    1994-05-01 0.870
    1994-06-01 1.117
    1994-07-01 1.117
    1994-08-01 1.010
    1994-09-01 1.049
    1994-10-01 0.798
    1994-11-01 0.997
    1994-12-01 1.171
    1995-01-01 1.333
    1995-02-01 0.970
    1995-03-01 0.824
    1995-04-01 0.758
    1995-05-01 0.874
    1995-06-01 0.984
    1995-07-01 1.107
    1995-08-01 1.007
    1995-09-01 0.972
    1995-10-01 1.080
    1995-11-01 0.946
    1995-12-01 1.291
    1996-01-01 1.468
    1996-02-01 0.861
    1996-03-01 1.142
    1996-04-01 1.127
    1996-05-01 0.911
    1996-06-01 1.115
    1996-07-01 1.022
    1996-08-01 0.961
    1996-09-01 1.051
    1996-10-01 1.008
    1996-11-01 1.056
    1996-12-01 1.419
    1997-01-01 1.228
    1997-02-01 1.035
    1997-03-01 1.169
    1997-04-01 1.015
    1997-05-01 1.283
    1997-06-01 1.344
    1997-07-01 1.238
    1997-08-01 1.260
    1997-09-01 1.297
    1997-10-01 1.416
    1997-11-01 1.669
    1997-12-01 1.687
    1998-01-01 1.765
    1998-02-01 1.535
    1998-03-01 1.351
    1998-04-01 1.391
    1998-05-01 1.291
    1998-06-01 1.619
    1998-07-01 1.375
    1998-08-01 1.533
    1998-09-01 1.698
    1998-10-01 1.576
    1998-11-01 1.611
    1998-12-01 1.513
    1999-01-01 1.490
    1999-02-01 1.194
    1999-03-01 1.269
    1999-04-01 1.155
    1999-05-01 1.221
    1999-06-01 1.298
    1999-07-01 0.964
    1999-08-01 1.162
    1999-09-01 1.214
    1999-10-01 1.148
    1999-11-01 1.329
    1999-12-01 1.295
    2000-01-01 2.014
    2000-02-01 1.113
    2000-03-01 1.208
    2000-04-01 1.167
    2000-05-01 0.971
    2000-06-01 1.115
    2000-07-01 1.143
    2000-08-01 1.054
    2000-09-01 1.146
    2000-10-01 1.148
    2000-11-01 1.203
    2000-12-01 1.326
    2001-01-01 1.264
    2001-02-01 1.345
    2001-03-01 1.251
    2001-04-01 1.258
    2001-05-01 1.019
    2001-06-01 1.249
    2001-07-01 1.402
    2001-08-01 1.203
    2001-09-01 19.015 <- 1 september 2001, big (not in terms of today though) Excess Reserves creation.
    2001-10-01 1.327 <- next month destroyed, see below the BASE change
    2001-11-01 1.439
    2001-12-01 1.643
    2002-01-01 1.406
    2002-02-01 1.373
    2002-03-01 1.403
    2002-04-01 1.205
    2002-05-01 1.259
    2002-06-01 1.238
    2002-07-01 1.377
    2002-08-01 1.607
    2002-09-01 1.484
    2002-10-01 1.533
    2002-11-01 1.638
    2002-12-01 2.008
    2003-01-01 1.708
    2003-02-01 1.964
    2003-03-01 1.629
    2003-04-01 1.539
    2003-05-01 1.617
    2003-06-01 2.040
    2003-07-01 1.934
    2003-08-01 3.764
    2003-09-01 1.508
    2003-10-01 1.467
    2003-11-01 1.483
    2003-12-01 1.047
    2004-01-01 0.888

    BASE around that 2001 september:
    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/BASE.txt
    2001-07-25 640.976
    2001-08-08 645.826
    2001-08-22 647.202
    2001-09-05 654.669
    2001-09-19 688.793 <- spike due to that Excess Reserves creation
    2001-10-03 662.714 <- Excess reserves again destroyed.
    2001-10-17 665.380
    2001-10-31 664.004
    2001-11-14 657.529

    Excess Reserves is now extremely high, that 'spike' in 2001 was 18 billion dollar, just a fraction (2-3%) of BASE.
    It was begin april 2012 1769 billion, BASE was then 2986, so Excess Reserves is now 60% of BASE.
    That's all dollars they don't need to meet requirements. Destroyable upon simple Central Bank decision.
    Is that likely to happen?
    Well, in the EU it's already happening:
    BASE:
    http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/quickview.do?SERIES_KEY=123.ILM.M.U2.C.LT01.Z5.EUR
    2013-05 1333817 E <- offset point, 1750966-1333817=417149 less
    2013Apr 1369052 E
    2013Mar 1428842 E
    2013Feb 1534126 E
    2013Jan 1630913 E
    2012Dec 1630969 E
    2012Nov 1675264 E
    2012Oct 1736211 E
    2012Sep 1766244 E
    2012Aug 1750966 E <- reference point, where Excess Reserves created, see below.
    2012Jul 1774568 E
    2012Jun 1762300 E

    Excess Reserves:
    http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/quickview.do?SERIES_KEY=117.BSI.M.U2.N.R.LRE.X.1.A1.3000.Z01.E
    2013-05 217281 A <- offset point, 403239-217281 = 185958 less
    2013Apr 241136 A
    2013Mar 297341 A
    2013Feb 360807 A
    2013Jan 382990 A
    2012Dec 403527 A
    2012Nov 422720 A
    2012Oct 431095 A
    2012Sep 432898 A
    2012Aug 403239 A <- reference point, creation of 400 billion euro.
    2012Jul 4616 A

    - 185958 (186 billion) euro's from Excess Reserves were destroyed.
    - 417149-185958=231191 (231 billion) more euro's from BASE were destroyed.
    So you can see, they destroyed even more BASE than Excess Reserves, likely because EU sits close to/in recession, unlike the US.
    Despite the 'better' US news, the money velocity is still trending down there too,
    http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/M1V.txt
    1995-04-01 6.418
    1995-07-01 6.513
    1995-10-01 6.657
    1996-01-01 6.810
    1996-04-01 6.972
    1996-07-01 7.153
    1996-10-01 7.404
    1997-01-01 7.552
    1997-04-01 7.775
    1997-07-01 7.864
    1997-10-01 7.953
    1998-01-01 7.990
    1998-04-01 8.074
    1998-07-01 8.216
    1998-10-01 8.266
    1999-01-01 8.338
    1999-04-01 8.400
    1999-07-01 8.564
    1999-10-01 8.639
    2000-01-01 8.726
    2000-04-01 8.982
    2000-07-01 9.098
    2000-10-01 9.267
    2001-01-01 9.220
    2001-04-01 9.194
    2001-07-01 8.849
    2001-10-01 8.840
    2002-01-01 8.812
    2002-04-01 8.911
    2002-07-01 8.962
    2002-10-01 8.887
    2003-01-01 8.819
    2003-04-01 8.696
    2003-07-01 8.701
    2003-10-01 8.777
    2004-01-01 8.789
    2004-04-01 8.805
    2004-07-01 8.829
    2004-10-01 8.846
    2005-01-01 9.023
    2005-04-01 9.139
    2005-07-01 9.265
    2005-10-01 9.379
    2006-01-01 9.531
    2006-04-01 9.654
    2006-07-01 9.818
    2006-10-01 9.922
    2007-01-01 10.058
    2007-04-01 10.164
    2007-07-01 10.292
    2007-10-01 10.365
    2008-01-01 10.320
    2008-04-01 10.327
    2008-07-01 10.078
    2008-10-01 9.201
    2009-01-01 8.827
    2009-04-01 8.525
    2009-07-01 8.406
    2009-10-01 8.388
    2010-01-01 8.411
    2010-04-01 8.414
    2010-07-01 8.357
    2010-10-01 8.122
    2011-01-01 7.906
    2011-04-01 7.767
    2011-07-01 7.296
    2011-10-01 7.112
    2012-01-01 6.991
    2012-04-01 6.894
    2012-07-01 6.750
    2012-10-01 6.544
    2013-01-01 6.484 <- V now as low as in 1985 and 1977.
    Take into account though that the velocity of money should never be used as an indicator on its own, since it can 'miss' certain kinds of spending.
    Conclusion of all above?
    The central banks can destroy money as long as bank savers can save and are willing to save. The former is determined by price increasings/wages/economical situation, the latter is determined by their trust in banks and the currencies. And that is why we should be very cautious about those QE's. The dollars aren't inflationary because their spending is compensated for by others spending less / saving more. And this situation now already 'survived' 5 years. Makes quite clear that the 2008 crisis and the QE's weren't the stories that the media and some precious metal related groups told us. My unwareness of Excess Reserves back then, inflicted me a 30% unmaterialized loss on my silver. So far. How many years further and more careful buying will I need to revert that to the green? It's 2008+5 years, and the Excess Reserves are piling up still nearly as fast as the dollar creation. Not any sign of a slowing down relative to BASE.
     
  17. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    Is this new? It's already the case since fractional reserve banking came into existence, a century ago.
    Of course such banks are fundamentally insolvent, if you interprete insolvency as that all owners cannot get their properties back simultaneous.
    But it's not insolvency according to the laws. It's legal. So in terms of actual legal bankruptcy, the banks are not insolvent.
    Economically, you're right. And I agree with it completely. And the problem is not that banks lend out money from depositors, explaining the fractional reserve existence reason, but that they can do so while falsely suggesting depositors that they just store their money, most people don't even know that banks lend out most of the saving accounts money. Banks should need explicit permission, so that the depositor is very aware of the involved risk, abit like stocks. Depositors then dont receive intrest, but also don't risk losses, and in the end, that intrest is actually still a loss anyway, due to new money creation and subsequent price inflation rate that is higher then the intrest rate, about 99% of the time, and especially near the end of a supercycle, such as now, where the exponential factor in the intrest (the next 5% includes previous 5%) accumulates most weight.
    It's also not the way you describe it, for every $10 in cash or at deposits at the central bank (doesnt need to be cash there so no vault just electronic account), they can lend out $x times under a central bank / legally determined multiplier.
    The minimum/required reserves are since some decades different than before, the 90/10 has gone since, and became close to zero, for ex in 2000 the ECB had 2%, which they dropped in 2008 to 1%. And this makes clear what I said in a previous post, where I described minimum/required reserves as a silly small bucket that goes over in a large pool Excess Reserves. And why? Because during crises, this money multiplier does NOT link broader money to base money anymore.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation
     
  18. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    That makes sense but the important distinction is time. True Money Supply does not include term deposits. It is the amount of money you have to go about your daily business. It is the amount of money consumers see. They don't see the monetary base so I still think you're focussing too much on the wrong level. The fact that a large portion of the TMS is in money-equivalents that can disappear overnight in a bank run or series of loan defaults is a completely different issue.

    In terms of the Central Banks creating and destroying money, look at the dummy balance sheets. The total amount of money in the hands of consumers to go to the supermarket is unchanged when we created excess reserves. The banks balances sheets are unchanged except for the addition of a third party. The excess reserves can be created and destroyed with absolutely no impact on total money supply. The excess reserve story allows some insight into what's happening in the underlying banking system but it does not tell you anything useful about inflation or deflation at the consumer level.

    Mostly it can tell you what actions the central bank has done to prevent a large deflationary event by preventing the money equivalents from being destroyed. I don't think it's possible for the central bank to "create" excess reserves without them being used to replace existing money equivalents. To create an excess reserve requires the other banks to sell assets to the central bank (or savers to be paying down aggregate debt). So although the central bank can choose whether it wants to have the asset it is an after-the-fact replacement of money-equivalents with official fiat.

    Edit: On second thought, they can technically create excess reserves by paying above book value for assets (such as that trillion dollar coin idea) but this is essentially normal old inflationary money printing which is what we are trying to untangle (ie. the inflationary printing from the non-inflationary printing).
     
  19. Pirocco

    Pirocco Well-Known Member

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    It's not the amount money that consumers 'see' that moves prices.
    It's the amount of what they 'see' that they 'spend'.
    And the monetary base is the closest approach to that, minus excess reserves then, since for some reason they are included as a component of it.
    And I'm not saying something new here, so it appears alike we disagree and I can't find out on what exactly, since you use other words (like here 'see' instead of 'spend'), and a discussion along different and ambiguous words isn't actually one. It's more like I tell a story, you tell a story, and that's about it.
    I can 'see' 100,000 euro on my bank account, if I only spend 10,000 then the remaining 90,000 does not affect prices (with the exception of speculation that I would spend them).
    And its this spending that the central bank tries to control, as to control inflation. If they don't like me spending that 90,000 they can increase intrest rate on savings as to disencourage me to spend it. But I'm parrotting again, nothing new here.
     
  20. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Two points. People spend non-monetary base money as well. All that happens is that it changes account name but but is still used to bid up prices.
    Second, having a cash balance is also spending since people have a demand for holding cash balances for many reasons including simply to enable them to live through until the next paycheck. For example if someone gets paid $1,000 per month and they spend every single cent at, say, $250/week, then their cash in the bank at the end of every week looks like:
    - Week 0 = $1,000
    - Week 1 = $750
    - Week 2 = $500
    - Week 3 = $250
    - Week 4 = $0
    Average cash in the bank over the month is $500 and yet they haven't saved a cent.
     

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