Hi everyone, Does this look like a trial run for gold confiscation by the US government? http://www.theblaze.com/stories/judge-familys-80-million-gold-coin-collection-belongs-to-uncle-sam/
Is this a sign of the (desperate) times when the US Govt is resorting to confiscating private property?
This has been a long running battle - essentially the school of thought is that the coins were obtained by the ancestor (either legitimately or maliciously) back in the 30s when they were not supposed to have been released at all. This bit is rubbish - citizens were allowed to retain $100 FV of coins, which means that five of them could have been legitimately retained by the original owner had they been legitimately obtained. If there was only five coins, not ten, then there might have been a stronger case for the family to have retained them - however seeing as there was more gold in the SDB than the original owner should have been able to possess that would have been detrimental to the case. If the US government was to look at confiscating gold, you might think they would suspend gold eagle and gold buffalo sales first. Not much point seizing gold when it's no longer backing the currency, and the fed can just issue more debt. The original nationalisation of gold in the 30s was to inflate the dollar, which required a revaluation of gold. The case for gold confiscation in the US was removed by Nixon's actions in 1971.
Can of worms territory... How about the gold, art treasures and various assets the Nazis helped themselves to from pre WW II citizens (read Jews and others considered enemies of the State) that have found their way into private collections, museums, etc. (To be clear, this is in no reference to the people at the center of this current dispute)
It's a very simple chain of custody in this case: US Mint -> ancestor -> descendent -> Secret Service. At the end of the day though, sucks for the family. Hope the coins are not destroyed.
No, it looks like Israel Switt's illegal stash was finally returned to it's rightful owner. A very small number of 1933 Double Eagles (20 as it turns out) somehow made their way out of the mint before they were scheduled to be officially released, but Executive Order 6102 was issued first so the official release never happened. 9 were tracked down by the Secret Service and taken back but the one, single coin that King Farouk of Egypt requested he be allowed to export is the only coin that has ever been officially released by the U.S. mint - Farouk's export request was granted, which meant that the coin was by de facto officially released and the dealer who ended up owning it decades later made an agreement with the U.S. Treasury that he would give it to them, they would absolutely, completely authorise it's issue and the coin would be auctioned and they'd split the proceeds between them. Israel Switt was suspected as being the dealer who originally got that '33 Double Eagle out of the mint in the first place, but the only way he would have been able to do it is through a dodgy deal with some of the Mint staff. Short version: only one 1933 Double Eagle has ever been officially authorised as United States currency, therefore any other 1933 Double Eagles are just lumps of metal that are still owned by the U.S. government.
Would that not be the epitome of ecstasy and agony, madam thats a 1933 double eagle worth $7M ...................Unfortunately we are keeping it
No, just a typically corrupt judicial system. My guess is that someone in the 'higher ups' wants these coins and doesn't want to pay market value or have to bid at an auction. Could it be that the Philadelphia Mint asked some bankers what they think and then a few strings were pulled in Govt to get them seized? Lack of Govt transparency means that these coins will disappear. "Here's a (fake) receipt to say they were melted". The media will never follow up on this story to find out what happens to these coins. My bet is that they'll end up in the collection of some millionaire banker... like Hank Paulson or someone.
How? Big A.D.'s short version explanation is very succinct. Coins found in someone's possession that should never have left the mint in the first place. Say someone snuck 2013 Snakes out of the Perth Mint as they were being struck in August, but the Australian government declared private gold ownership illegal the day before the release - in 50 years time, how would the Snakes that escaped be the legal property of someone who inherited them? They would still have been stolen.
Didnt read Big AD post before posting mine.. makes sense but a bit hypocritical, govt steals all the time. If at the time, the President decreed that all 1933 be melted down ( i dont know if he did) then these coins should be melted down also, publically.
That's the $7 million dollar question It is problematic, but the one Farouk had was legit. But does the $7M coin lose value now that there are plenty more and it is no longer unique? Are the other coins worth $80M (or less now there's so many?), if they're not for sale? If some bigshot banker gets hold of them, they can just sell them on the black market no doubt. Or shadow bankers market. Whatever that parallel banking world outside of legal jurisdictions is.
It doesn't. There is one, single solitary coin that was last sold for about $7.5 million (and the buyer actually had to pay the extra $20 face value of the coin as well since it is officially worth $20) but that is the only '33 Double Eagle coin that has ever been officially released as U.S. currency and its also the only '33 Double Eagle coin that will be officially released as U.S. currency. That was part of the arrangement the U.S. Treasury made with the dealer who had the round, gold disc in his possession - there would only ever be one of them that would be officially issued as currency. The other ten 1933 Double Eagles are not actually coins because they have never been authorised as currency of the United States of America. They're simply round discs made out of gold with a pretty design on them that were manufactured in a government facility and which still belong to the United States government.
This is implying that he actually stole the things. If he did, then to my mind, it's a cut and dried case. However if he paid the mint for the items then the whole affair becomes much more uncertain.....
It's more a case of lost property than theft, although it seems Switt's contacts within the mint were able provide some assistance in getting the coins "lost" in the first place.
