Trading

Discussion in 'Stocks & Derivatives' started by mickjohn, Dec 14, 2010.

  1. mickjohn

    mickjohn New Member

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    Sorry, I am new to trading.

    Can anyone recommend a trading site to put the trades through like etrade etc.? what do you use?

    Also, at this stage I was going to put a little money into AYN. Just to test the water.

    Is there anywhere else that might be a better option in peoples' opinions?

    I will do my own due diligence, just looking to get some resources/opinions before I jump in.

    Cheers,

    mick
     
  2. Forge

    Forge New Member

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    CCU might be worth a look. Have a look at hobo-jo's website for info on some other options.
     
  3. Smoothcriminal

    Smoothcriminal New Member Silver Stacker

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    CCU best for silver IMO CGT good for a big jump next year also IMO - total speccy pick of the day is MMR currently @ around 80 cents (big drop today) but could head far north if drilling results are promising or far south (MEO anyone) if computer says no on the drilling.

    Non materials stock but HFA is doing interesting things with backroom deals and a takeover in the wind - Sean Young will be angling for at least 40 cents a share to offload his so looks promising there.





    Disclaimer: not a financial advisor just a dude that plays the market and usually does ok take nothing I say as advice and DYOD - by reading this you agree not to sue me :p
     
  4. Smoothcriminal

    Smoothcriminal New Member Silver Stacker

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    Oh and I use commsec and have no complaints - easy to use, good information available.
     
  5. Silverrider

    Silverrider Active Member

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    Ayn would be great investment a pure silver company on the asx with silver on the move by the time they start producing the returns will be astronomical
     
  6. mickjohn

    mickjohn New Member

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    2 more....

    Anyone looking at PanAust (PNA)?
    and
    has anyone used belldirect.com.au for trading?
     
  7. Bargain Hunter

    Bargain Hunter Member

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    Mick it seems from your post perhaps you are new to the stock-market? Have you read any books on 'value investing' yet. I think its a good idea to read up and take your time before taking the plunge if you haven't already. Remember the more research you do on a company the less likely you are to lose money. Yes it's painstaking and time consuming but if you want to minimize losses it's necessary.

    I would suggest reading at least 5 years of annual reports if available, making a spreadsheet of the financial going back 5 or 10 years if possible (or as far back as you can go if it is less than that, reading all the ASX announcements for at least the past 3 years, talking to management, obtaining scuttlebutt where possible, reading the opinions about the company from those who are knowledgeable, where possible visiting their offices or stores or mine-sites, etc. Take Peter Lynch's advice and spend more time researching your stocks than you would buying a fridge, a car, a holiday, etc. Most people spend more time researching buying a $500 fridge than they do when plonking down $5000 into a stock.

    Imagine if you wanted to buy a local restaurant or a local retailer and you had to put your whole life savings and borrow as well to do it. What sort of research would you do? You would probably look at the financial statements very carefully, question the management/previous owners about the business, perhaps go in and buy the product and see how it is and how the service is, potentially talk to customers, go and check out the competitors in the local area, maybe talk to suppliers, etc. If you can apply the same sort of due diligence to buying small pieces of business (i.e. stocks) you will come out ahead of 99% of other investors including fund managers. Always calculate the intrinsic value of any potential investment and take note of (best to write them all down) all the risks, threats, strengths opportunities, competitive position, etc before making an investment. Above all pay attention to the risks, as this is the most important part. A good way to think about how risky is an investment ask yourself if I sold everything I owned and put my life-savings into this one investment how would I feel? Would I be able to sleep at night? This will provide some insight into the riskiness of the investment (note: I'm not actually advocating doing this it is just a mental exercise).

    If you don't want to go down the heavy research route you could perhaps consider managed funds (yes most of them suck badly so you have to be selective), investment newsletters (same issue as managed funds), or taking a more quantitative and diversified approach (like Ben Graham did when buying large numbers of net-net stocks on average it works out well).

    I don't want to scare you off, but like any business endeavor (to quote Benjamin Graham 'investment is most intelligent when it is most businesslike) investing is difficult and requires effort if it is to be successful (unless your feeling lucky that is).
     
  8. boston

    boston Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I use BellDirect and are happy with what they do. Information is scant, but it suits me as I just use them to buy and get my information elsewhere - I am a long term hoarder!
     
  9. mickjohn

    mickjohn New Member

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    Thanks for the replies.

    Bargain hunter, are there any books that you would recommend?

    Cheers!
     
  10. Bargain Hunter

    Bargain Hunter Member

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    mickjohn sorry I didn't answer your post sooner I forgot about it. Books I would recommend are:

    -The Intelligent Investor (get the latest edition) by Benjamin Graham.
    -Security Analysis Sixth edition (by Benjamin Graham and David Dodd, with foreword and extra material written by other investors)
    -The Intelligent Australian Investor By Dr. Chris Leithner
    -Benjamin Graham, Building a Profession: The Early Writings of the Father of Security Analysis [Hardcover]
    -The Essays of Warren Buffett: Lessons for Investors and Managers [Paperback] 3rd revised edition
    -Financial Times Guide to Value Investing by Glen Arnold
    -Value Investing from Graham to Buffett and Beyond (Greenwald, kahn, Sonkin, Ban Biema)
    -You can be a stock market genius by Joel Greenblatt
    -Common Stocks, Uncommon Profits and Other Writings by Phillip A. Fisher
    -The Path to Wealth Through Common Stocks by Phillip A. Fisher
    -A concise Guide to Value Investing by Brian Mcniven

    -The Snowball: Warren Buffett and the Business of Life [Paperback]
    -Master CEOs by Matthew Kidman
    -Super Stocks by Kenneth Fisher
    -The Little Blue Book that Beats the Market by Joel Greenblatt
    -The Essays of Warren Buffett: Lessons for Corporate America, Second Edition (edited by Lawrence Cunningham
    -One up on Wall Street by Peter Lynch
    -Beating the Street by Peter Lynch
    -The Sleuth investor by Avner Mandelman
    -A wonderful Company at a fair price by Brian Mcniven
    -Market Wise by Brian Mcniven
    -The Pied Pipers of Wall Street: How Analysts Sell You Down the River [Hardcover] By Benjamin mark Cole
    -Contrarian Investment Strategies The Next Generation By David Dreman
    -Ron's Road to Wealth: Insights for the Curious Investor by Ron Muhlenkamp
    -Bill Gross on Investing by Bill Gross
    -The Little Book of Value Investing by Christopher H. Browne
    -John Neff on investing By John Neff

    The list doesn't cover the whole spectrum and is a list focused on value investing. A separate list would have to be made to deal with Macroeconomics and commodities, another list for accounting, etc. Obviously I don't expect you to rush out and buy the whole list. The ones in bold are in my opinion the most important one's to read.

    I think if you read the books highlighted in bold to start with, but always continue to read a lot in general and couple it with discipline, nerves of steel and extreme patience and you'll eventually be a kick-ass investor.

    If there is one thing that separates the decent investors from the outstanding ones it is patience. If you can sit by and twiddle your thumbs for long periods of time when bargains are scarce you'll eventually find massive bargains and get rich.
     
  11. mickjohn

    mickjohn New Member

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    Wow!
    Thanks for that list.... thanks for all the support!
    I will certainly hunt out a few of them!

    Quick update:
    Registered with Bell direct. Quite happy with their basic service and the transaction costs.
    Yet to trade, although dangerously close to an initial position in CCU just as a foundation in the portfolio.
    I am becoming aware of more and more forums with traders on them (Some subscription/some not) and am currently spending some time on the asx website using their educational resources there too.
    There is a wealth of knowledge out there to tap into and I am getting the impression that this may be a very good time to develop a position in trading (at least for me).

    Anyway, of links for anyone else that wants to walk in a similar path:

    www.belldirect.com.au
    online brokerage.

    http://www.asx.com.au/resources/education/index.htm
    Basic education.

    Thanks again!
     
  12. fiatphoney

    fiatphoney New Member

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    Look out for sites that offer practice accounts if trading is something you want to try.
    That path is too hot for me.
     
  13. Bargain Hunter

    Bargain Hunter Member

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    Remember mickjohn patience will make you rich and haste will make you poor.
     
  14. mickjohn

    mickjohn New Member

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    Patience..... Got it!

    *off to the casino* j/k

    Im taking my time....
    Still fairly young with modest positions in both physical silver and RE. Very stable employment.
    Im happy with my current positions and would like to diversify a little further.

    Retail/Business/Commerce/franchise doesnt really feel like its in a good place at the moment. But that will change.

    Still holding off, just need to fight my inner demons of wanting to jump in with a little investment to get my feet wet. Its hard, you see some smaller listed companies that have triple/quadrupled in the last 6-12 months and you wonder what if I got in sooner? But the announcements that drove those increases, would have been very hard to predict in advance..... i think discipline in patience is definitely something that i need/have to work on.

    Cheers
     
  15. Bargain Hunter

    Bargain Hunter Member

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    Remember Warren Buffett's analogy about limiting your decisions. He said that you should imagine you have a punch card and you can only make 20 investment decisions (a buy is one decision, a sell is another decision) in your lifetime, and each time you use up a decision a hole is punched in the card. He didn't actually do it himself and it's not meant to be taken literally but you get the general idea. Good ideas are rare, and a few good decisions are enough to make you wealthy for a lifetime.
     

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