The Newbie's first buy.

Hi fellas, first time poster, long time lurker.

I've been creeping in the shadows for last few months, waiting for silver to hit a slump. It's finally happened and I'm about to finally get into the possession of some physical silver.

Anyway, I put an advertisement in the local paper today about buying silver. Luckily for me I've already got someone looking to offload a reasonable amount (about 2kg of combined sized ingots) before a move interstate next month. He is an old guy who claims to have been recovering silver back in the day from camera film, sending it off to a refinery in Sydney and receiving bars back. This sounds all well and good but I haven't been able to find the company he used to smelt the bars:

Carman Refineries (Silver?), located in Sydney. He retired from Silver trading 15 years ago so this predates the internets.

Searching on this forum for "Carman" resulted in this thread.

http://forums.silverstackers.com/topic-1312-who-makes-this-1kg-bar.html

So I'm hopeful this isn't a shady operation that went bust due to fraud. Does anyone have experience with this (now defunct) company/ or seen their products around the place? He says he has a .5 KG bar and lots of 1 ouncers.

Thanks.

 

Oh, and if you could give me any advice for buying silver in a private manner I would be more than appreciative. I'm reading up on how to test for real silver but hearing from the pros directly would be an experience I wouldn't likely forget.

 

Hi prince_of_sales, welcome.

If I were to make future bullion purchases (to replace those I lost on a recent fishing trip), I would want to make sure that whatever I buy will be relatively easy to sell later on.

More well known large silver bars such as Perth Mint, PAMP and to a lesser extent Ainslie and ABC are quite liquid in terms of being able to sell later. As for Carman Refineries, if I were to see that for sale, I would think twice about whether it was legit or not.

Having said that, I am sure Carman Refineries is legit, and many will agree with what CK said in that thread: 'silver is silver'. I am sure if you purchased these bars, then in a few months/years time decided to sell them on this forum, they would sell.

However for me, I stick to the big names for bullion bars.

Good luck!

 

I agree. It's better to stick with well known brand names when buying bars. While you may get good price from private seller who melted their own bars, it can be a problem later on when you wants to sell the bar to someone else. If you're unsure about the brand name, better don't buy it. Why risk it when you got PAMP, PerthMint, ABC, etc.. brands readily available?

Welcome to the forum.

 

Hi and welcome to S.S.

If you wanna buy silver for investment then I would suggest bars or coins which are recognizable for easier sale in the future

 

Duly noted about the trusted brand names rbaggio, I'm a bit restricted in what I can purchase around my area (I live in the bush) so I need to make sure whatever I'm buying is legit.

 

Depends on the price also, if they want spot or plus, then I would go for the trusted brands as mentioned, however if it is 20-30% less and you can find some sort of providence then I would go for it. If it is a hand poured bar I see no issue with a small drill mark or something to prove it is solid ?

 

welcome.
mate - to recover silver from film (i'm just guessing here) i would imagine you'd need tonnes and tonnes of source film - that's gigantic huge piles of cellulose.
Also just at a guess - i'd be thinking the silver compounds would be very hard to separate from everything else - especially once exposed to light
Sounds a bit dodgy to me

Silver can be easily posted no matter where you live (bush, armpit, or belly button) - just might pay a little bit more and have to wait a few extra days for delivery

 

Or it could be some 'vintage' silver ingot ( large premium on eBay )

It would be great if you could post a pic of that bar here.

If its a smaller sized bar ( less than 3 oz ) than i mite make an offer for at least one bar myself.

 

I picked them up today. Stampings are the same as the thread I linked in the original post, so that is good. To clarify, it was one .5 KG bar of silver and a whole lot of
5 gram pendants. Not sure what I will do with the pendants, yell out if you see something you like.

The other guy's bar.

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_162_img_2876.jpg][/imgz]

My bar.

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_bar.jpg][/imgz]

And the Pendants.

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_tas.jpg][/imgz]

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_small.jpg][/imgz]

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_qld2.jpg][/imgz]

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_qld.jpg][/imgz]

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_americacup83.jpg][/imgz]

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_america_cup.jpg][/imgz]

I have a lot of these. And I mean a lot.

[imgz=http://forums.silverstackers.com/uploads/1038_bullmark.jpg][/imgz]

 

To test your silver you need nitric acid (technical grade) ... you can also buy testing solution made for testing silver %, but with my years of experience these solutions not much luck as to determine the EXACT % of silver.

With the testing solution... the darker the "red" color is the higher the %, but these solutions can expire and give a false negative test result... what I mean is it will not turn a dark red even when placed on known .999 silver. If you use these testing solutions you need to keep a known test sample of different %'s of silver. The best way to do this is with coins... this way you know when your testing solution is expired. (apparently over exposure to light and oxygen causes it to expire)

With nitric acid, it is harder... or should I say almost impossible to test the purity of silver, I use the acid to test for real silver or just plated silver... To do this you need to cut in to the edge or make a deep scratch on the surface and place a drop on it... if it fizzes green or blue it is likely just silver plated the reaction you are seeing is the acid eating the base metal like copper or brass. REAL silver with a 55% plus purity will not react to the acid... and a spot of pure white color will appear. ALWAYS test it more than one time... I have seen some surface material cause the fizzing, but after the second test it is silver... no fizzing.
Again get some known silver coins and start testing.

To get an exact % of silver you will need to have it assayed... For me it costs $30. USD... when I get something that I am not sure of I will save it... till I get about 30 ounces before I pay to have it tested. (only use a trusted shop to do the testing, ask them if they would buy it with out testing... use this as a guide to discover the % of it.) Don't waist your money testing something unless you tested it yourself with the acid and little or no green or blue fizzing reaction.

I also use a 10x loop to look at the item... especially antique items like flatware, hollow ware, cups and etc. If they are plated you can see the edges of the plating when you look along worn edges. Antique Sterling Silver also has a distinct smell to it... if you work around it for a long time you know what I am talking about.

 

came across more info on "Carman refiners" incase you were still interested - 5.0kg bullion currently listed on ebay.

Some info from the listing:

 

good spotting gewse & remembered the thread !!!

 

Thanks for that mate, I really didn't think it was that old!

Certainly a relic but I guess silver is timeless.

 

Here's an idea - if you have family or a close friend in the 'burbs, buy online from a bullion dealer or a stacker here and just get it posted to them if you are that far out in the sticks that postage becomes problematic for you. When you see the friend or relo, pick up the silver that was delivered to them.

Most of my stack is perth mint - bars and coins. I also have a couple of ABC bars and Engelhards as well. Throw in a number of 1966 50c coins for good measure. I said this to my mum when she first started stacking when spot was $16.50 - - - don't whinge about paying $20 for a one ounce coin if it's recognisable and easily liquidated. We are really? worried about $2 or $3 an ounce now.. not going to matter when we have silver over $150.

Better off securing liquid silver bullion. Perth mint wins hands down for me. If perth mint coins are good enough for the rest of the world to use as a benchmark for their own minting process, they're good enough for me to own!

Shiny regards,
PPSS

 

.. just saw that bar. Looks good. If its a bargain, buy it. Looks like a refined poured bar to me.

 

Im new as well and dont know S#$% so Im sticking to scottsdale and ampex exclsusively until I know more. Id die it If bought 100oz of aluminum.

 

I was in the same boat as you. When I went to buy I used this test to make sure what I was buying was real silver.

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/H...as-Recipes-Processes-Vol3/Silver-Testing.html

 

You'd know if it was aluminium mate! lol it would be as big as you lol. It's density is insanely small compared to silver.

Very small probability that you'd snare some cheap metal a jerk-off was selling as silver when it came to a stamped bar. I doubt those stamps are easily obtainable to use as forgeries.

all that being said Perth mint, my friend. I have a 10 oz 2010 kook that I drool over.

 

And now... If you find a Carman, you grab it and brag about the find! How time changes our thinking.