The Lack of Major Wars May Be Hurting Economic Growth [NY Times]

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by SpacePete, Jun 15, 2014.

Page 2 of 5
  1. BeHereNow

    BeHereNow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    East Coast U.S.A.
    There is more to it than that.
    War prompts innovation.
    War causes strides in medical treatment.
    More, but society has benefited from unintended consequences of war. That is not a justification for war, please do not misread.


    Forest fires are good for forests. Counterintuitive, but true.
    Wars have been good for the economy. Counterintuitive but true.
    USA had a production and economic boom after WWII.
    'War is good for business.' I've heard it all my life. Never liked it, but I never saw that it was not correct.

    SilverPete's lifted quote is interesting:
    "But here is the catch: Whatever the economic benefits of potential conflict might have been, the calculus is different today. Technologies have become much more destructive, and so a large-scale war would be a bigger disaster than before. That makes many wars less likely, which is a good thing, but it also makes economic stagnation easier to countenance."

    But we must remember that WWI was "The War to end all wars." Destruction caused by the new technologies were horrific, not just human life, but building and cities as well.
    We always think we have made so much progress, but 100 years from now a fair evaluation of WWI compared to contemporary wars may not see such a big difference.
    It is not clear to me that it is significant to say we could have a bigger disaster.
    More opportunity to destroy, should mean more opportunity to rebuild and recover. The technology hammer builds as well as destroys.
     
    BeHereNow, Jun 15, 2014
    #21
  2. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    The USA benefited after WW2 because most of Europe had been destroyed while the US was practically untouched. This allowed them to take advantage of the reduced manufacturing capabilities of Europe and get their exports up.

    How much did the demolition of their cities help the UK and co?
     
    col0016, Jun 16, 2014
    #22
  3. Ouch

    Ouch Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,055
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    There is no debt problem when we have a security crisis.


    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...n-arms-race-20140615-3a5xk.html#ixzz34lQ6Y9Fh
     
    Ouch, Jun 16, 2014
    #23
  4. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    Am I missing something here? The problem is government, clearly identified in this paragraph. Has this person even broached the idea of abolishing government (since it is clearly the problem) or are they arguing that killing lots of people and widespread destruction is the solution to government?

    My takeaway from this is that governments need wars. The question at that point should be , do we need governments? Not do we need wars.
     
    hawkeye, Jun 16, 2014
    #24
  5. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    "Australia is now the seventh-largest importer of major arms in the world and the biggest customer of the largest weapons producer, the US."


    I find that VERY hard to believe.


    OC
    .
     
    Old Codger, Jun 16, 2014
    #25
  6. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    Governments need war - wars kill citizens - citizens vote for governments to look after them...
    It's funny that like you said it doesn't even cross the author's mind to get rid of the cause of the wars lol.
     
    col0016, Jun 16, 2014
    #26
  7. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,064
    Likes Received:
    3,292
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    We're wealthy. The others are already armed to the toenails and we are a prime market. Not surprised.
     
    JulieW, Jun 16, 2014
    #27
  8. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I would love to see a list.

    The idea that we paid $10 million a copy for "REFURBISHED" M1A1 'Abrams' is insane. The socialists could not come at the Depleted Uranium armour, so bought 2nd best. Just like the 'Collins'.


    OC
     
    Old Codger, Jun 16, 2014
    #28
  9. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,989
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    QLD
    market or target ? ...lonely on this side of the world with a tiny population
     
    renovator, Jun 16, 2014
    #29
  10. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    julie,

    Can i have a reference for the arms sales claims please? In particular the "largest US customer" ones.


    OC
     
    Old Codger, Jun 16, 2014
    #30
  11. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    13,064
    Likes Received:
    3,292
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    I saw it in one of the oz newspapers OC.
    Not sure where sorry.
     
    JulieW, Jun 16, 2014
    #31
  12. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    julie,


    I was not trying to score points with my request, as I have grave doubts about OZ being the biggest US customer. Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, Germany and other EU countries, and so on maybe.

    We have had some big purchases, such as the 4x C17s at >$400 million a copy, the $500 million for the 50x 2nd hand 'Abrams', the latest Super Hornets and so on, but they are spread over some years. Some gear has been ordered but we will not see it, or pay for it, for 10 years or so.

    As I am sure you know arms sales are HUGE all over the world, year in and year out, and i would guess that the biggest supplier is Russia and the biggest buyer is probably China and India. India is spending VAST amounts of (OZ?) money on arms, most of it Russian.

    In the real world, Australian military power is in the 3rd league!


    OC
     
    Old Codger, Jun 16, 2014
    #32
  13. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    col0016, Jun 16, 2014
    #33
  14. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    Congo?
     
    col0016, Jun 16, 2014
    #34
  15. Ouch

    Ouch Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,055
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Congo has definitely not been always mentioned.
     
    Ouch, Jun 16, 2014
    #35
  16. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    12,433
    Likes Received:
    40
    Trophy Points:
    48
    According to Wikipedia, we are currently number 13 by expenditure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

    Edit: I just realized there are two lists side by side and we are number 12 according to the right hand side one.
     
    SpacePete, Jun 16, 2014
    #36
  17. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    I wondered why no politicians are brave enough to stand up and speak out against Congo.
     
    col0016, Jun 16, 2014
    #37
  18. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,466
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    The claim is that we are the 7th largest importer, which might effect that list.
     
    col0016, Jun 16, 2014
    #38
  19. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    8,717
    Likes Received:
    304
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    :lol: Smartypants. They clearly mean a pacific country that's been in the news a lot recently. In fact we just had the 3-year anniversary of when they initiated an incursion on our airspace bringing all flights to a halt for a few days - Chile.
     
    bordsilver, Jun 16, 2014
    #39
  20. Old Codger

    Old Codger Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,782
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    That military expenditure list include wages which are a lot higher in OZ than many on that list.

    In fact our troops are VERY well paid in direct comparison to many leading nations, including the USA.


    OC
     
    Old Codger, Jun 16, 2014
    #40
Page 2 of 5

Share This Page