Taxation levels in Australia.

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by JulieW, Sep 2, 2014.

  1. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Interesting note from Barefoot Investor:

    So I'd say it's get whilst the getting is good, since these 'low' levels can't last!
     
  2. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    9,618
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    The rocks
    Australia is also one of the highest income countries.

    Or to put it another way, typically (but not solely) low tax = higher prosperity and income.

    So yes, we are overtaxed. Comparing us to Greece, France, Italy etc does not mean we should replicate their idiotic policies. If anything it means we should do the opposite.
     
  3. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    6,028
    Likes Received:
    907
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It really makes you wonder how the government ever managed in the early 1900s? How far we've come since then.

    Chart 1: Tax to GDP 1902-2005
    [​IMG]
    Source:archive.treasury.gov.au

    Chart 2: Federal government taxation revenue by tax base
    [​IMG]
    Source:archive.treasury.gov.au
     
  4. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    6,028
    Likes Received:
    907
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Once they became dependent on easy money, they just couldn't let it go.

    http://archive.treasury.gov.au/documents/1156/HTML/docshell.asp?URL=01_Brief_History.asp
     
  5. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    The analysis in the OP is far too shallow on so many levels it's hard to even comment on it. The backhanded swipes he dishes out doesn't help it's credibility.

    Let's see some data first to back up the various comments he made.

    Although, I will allow myself to say one thing .... All Taxation is theft. :)

    No. I think this needs to be examined more closely and not just dismissed as "fair enough".
     
  6. nonrecourse

    nonrecourse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia

    This older so called rich dude had a real belly laugh over the above misrepresentation of the facts :lol: The fact is the OECD is bankrupt except for Canada that has a similar tax rate to ours. So what has happened to all these OECD countries that tax old rich white men like me?

    They have looked at the 35 hours a week and never ending benefits and welfare gravy train and they have pulled the plug. So now the tax base is shrinking and their solution in France was legislated theft by raising the tax rate to 70%.

    Thanks to the labor party and the Greens we have OCED youth unemployment levels.

    The last Labor Government ensured that my kids will be paying higher taxes for the rest of their life.

    The next Labor government will ensure my grandchildren are the white trash of Asia. Keating of course didn't have anything to do with that did he :rolleyes:
     
  7. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    What did Keating do to set up that circumstance NR?
     
  8. hawkeye

    hawkeye New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    I do agree with the itemisation, although I think it needs to go a lot further and be far more precise.

    And at that point some of the items need to be non-mandatory ie people can choose whether they want to pay for them or not and hence whether they receive the benefits of said services or not.

    Plus, any new items added must also be non-mandatory.

    Plus, in the non-mandatory categories the government must allow private companies to provide those services if they are required by the market so people get to choose alternatives.

    And eventually all tax items become non-mandatory and all services provided by government are also by provided by private companies if there is market demand.

    And then we may get good services when people realise they might not get paid if they don't provide good services.

    And then we will have a moral, civilized society free from threats and coercion to pay or else.

    Is that so unreasonable?
     
  9. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,444
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes grossly overtaxed - marginal rate of 48% +GST +tax on fuel and stamp duties. If they tax me more I will give up work and then there will be 20 more people at centre-link waiting for handouts. Tax business owners so they no longer make profits that are meaningful and you the government can pay my staff their wages. I will be out. Don't compare us to the bankrupt countries of Europe and say our taxes are too low. Our taxes are far too high to promote free enterprise and new business. Theft and redistribution of my earnings is not why I work hard. Have you not learned anything from history! Been to Europe lately it's an education in unemployment, socialism and complete destruction of human inspiration. A sad state of affairs.
     
  10. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    2,444
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Australia
    They managed because government was much smaller and less intrusive in your life.
     
  11. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    I remember losing my temper during a discussion on the arrival of the "Booze Buses". I saw them as an obvious step forward in population control and in getting the population used to the idea of being stopped, whilst going about their business, in order to be given the once over in the hope of catching a 'criminal'. My protagonists saw them as being about 'public safety'. Not at all. Government control.

    The subsequent increase in government intrusion across all levels of activity by government, local, state and federal is the major impediment to a free society and hence with a prosperous society. They need to have a large tax collection to fund their developing authoritarian society. Keep in mind that the above only shows federal taxes. Include State taxes - land taxes, stamp duties, vehicle registrations, business registrations etc, plus a similar raft of taxes at the local level, from rates and levies, dog registration fees, bushfire and flood levies and special charges for 'works'.

    I've just had to replace a fence that separates my land from council land. The council requires me to mow their land, will not allow me to plant it as a garden, describes the fence I may erect, and charges me a permit fee for its replacement. I must also pay for the fence without any recompense from them. All taxes on top of taxes. I once worked out that of my income, approximately 25% came to me after paying all the relevant taxes - and my income tax rate was not overwhelmingly high. The rest were council fees, excise duties, gst's and a range of hidden taxes.

    Research has shown that 'most' Australians are happy to pay tax for things they believe matter - health, deserved welfare, education. It's pretty obvious that the large range of public service employment perks and unnecessary bureaucracies, along with political pork bellies are not included. It will never happen but I'd think that the most immediate issues to deal with are the size of the bureaucracy and the size of the welfare bill, not the amount of taxation levied. Reduce the former along with the tax rates and the latter issues of welfare can be shrunk without too much dislocation of society.
     
  12. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2014
    Messages:
    12,967
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You ain't seen nothin yet. It's going to get far FAR more intrusive. I think people fail to understand the true potential of technological advancement over the coming decades in facilitating authoritarian governments. And it's unstoppable.
     
  13. boston

    boston Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,915
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia
    Tell the council that you will abide by 'their' terms and conditions, provided the council can prove ownership over 'their' land. They can't!
    Ask them to provide the signed contract between yourselves, showing what both your obligations are. This is required under a Body Corporate, which councils legally are. They can't!

    The reality is that:

    1. You don't have to mow the nature verge, or any claimed council assets.
    2. The dividing fence HAS to be legally paid 50% each including the permit fee.

    Been there, done that!
     
  14. petey

    petey Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Andorra
    Try telling the people of Andorra that Australian taxes are low.
     
  15. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,546
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
  16. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    May 10, 2012
    Messages:
    6,028
    Likes Received:
    907
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sounds like the kind of place I'd move to:

     
  17. Agnostic

    Agnostic Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2013
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I agree generally with your observations EXCEPT that it's unstoppable.

    Unstoppable is what the people in power would like us to believe.

    The reality is that the growth of the state requires the individual consent, either explicit or implied, of millions of ordinary Australians, every hour, every day.

    Each time someone pays a tax, stops at a checkpoint, completes a survey, votes, submits a license application, sends their children to a government school, they are consenting to the system.

    If even a small portion stopped believing in the government (yes it is a belief), the system would commence breaking down.

    That is what happened to the USSR, people stopped believing in it.
     
  18. col0016

    col0016 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,546
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    The point of the article is to show that the EU is making them begin taxing personal incomes...
     
  19. nonrecourse

    nonrecourse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Are you serious Jules. I've misjudged you. You really are disconnected when it comes to understanding how a nation builds wealth and how other nations like most of the OEDC are sliding down into the financial backwaters where cronyism and corruption pervades.

    Do yo wonder how is it that SMSF's in Australia in the past 20 years have outstripped Retail and Industry funds hands down? The answer isn't just the low 15% tax the answer is taking direct responsibility for your actions.

    Keating and Hawke introduced capital gains tax on 100% of the gain, fringe benefits tax, superannuation tax of 15% which previously at the highest rate was 2.5% plus a raft of taxes on business that de-industrialised the Australian economy.

    Howard stupidly brought in the GST (Greedy Stinking Tax) that all the labor states pissed up against the wall and they want to raise it????

    Lets get serious you want a fair tax system?..... fine. A flat 15% on everything from the first dollar to the last with no deductions, no depreciation, no need for accountants and tax lawyers, NO NEGATIVE GEARING, No Land Tax. no government subsides nada not one penny.

    Sack two thirds of the federal and state civil service and let the people learn how to produce goods and services the rest of the world wants and needs.

    Some people won't cope, not many less than 2% of the population. The solution for them is not government charity but rather family and community self help.

    Sounds radical doesn't it.

    Kind Regards
    non recourse
     
  20. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Messages:
    12,774
    Likes Received:
    1,849
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks NR. Not radical at all. I'd agree.
    Just interested in the perspective on Keating.
    I see them all as having a hand in the growth of totalitarianism. The balance is human wellbeing.
    But in essence I subscribe to the Hindu view that this age is a pile of poo and you can do nothing about anything except seek self-enlightenment. And the advantage is that there is so little chance of universality that personal enlightenment is accordingly much easier to achieve.
    Probably applies to financial self-sufficience at the moment, but the ages change!
     

Share This Page