[QA] Many Questions

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by yennus, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hi Panda people, this was a recent message that I thought I would open up to more people, especially the other experts and enthusiasts.

    Hi Yennus,

    1. Will you be offering other bears for sale? Perhaps, the Beijing expo you recently discovered or others?
    A. More bears for sale? Yep, I got some BeiJing bears for sale coming up soon. I didn't want to do a group buy on these ones since I couldn't find enough quality ones for everyone.

    2i. Now that I have Mr Ge's price guide, can you roughly tell me how it works? There are so many columns and I don't read Chinese.
    2ii. At least the book (Mr. Ge's Panda Book) you see the pictures and gather that the number of stars indicate 'good buy'?

    A. Priceguide instructions... I'll write something in the [Group Buy] Mr. Ge thread to help with the translation a bit later on (hopefully this weekend). These have only just arrived in Sydney.

    3. Also, like to check with you since you spend a lot of time in China. I understand Chinese Mainland buyers prefer their coin raw not slabbed.
    A. Mainlander views on OMP and Graded Pandas... obviously I can't speak on behalf of all Mainlanders (especially being a 'laowai' aka foreigner). But from what I have observed, there are loyal followers of both OMP and Graded Pandas. Graded Pandas sell for more. However that could just be because people need to cover the expenses of getting stuff graded.

    4. How do they see coins that are sold individually/separately from a set of 4 or 5? For example, you only have a coin or two from a set of 4 coins (whether silver or gold)? Its only one or possibly two coins from the set because they were both sold as a set and it is difficult to gather a set because they are rare.
    A. It is possible to buy individual coins to a set, if you can find the loose coin... this often takes many hours... and sometimes many frustrated hunts before success. The rarer the coin, often the longer it is to find. Buying in sets is usually much easier (and cheaper per coin). I've been waiting many months for more BIG3 Pandas to become available. I've got cash to pay, but there are simply no more new BIG3 Pandas being made available at this time. But then again, when 25Grizzlies came out here, he found the single bi-metallic Panda that was missing from his set on the first day.

    5. Do the buyers from Mainland rely heavily on Mr Ge's book and...
    A. Mr. Ge's book is one of many books available, but I think people like it because it is very current.


    6. so would you say the price guide accurately reflect the market value of the coins?
    A. Mr. Ge's priceguide is one of many useful references. Prices of coins generally fall into bands (e.g. an OMP 2009 Panda may sell for $60 - $100), depending on quality and quantity. Obviously the lower the quality the lower the price, and the higher the quality the higher the price.

    7. I am looking at some silver world historical figures like Mozart, Homer, Shakespeare etc. These are not slabbed but are in capsules. Mr Ge has listed them as 2 star. What is your opinion on them. I also recently bought the silver set on Forbidden City. However, one coin is missing from this set of 5 so I am on the look-out for this one coin to complete the set.
    A. Historical figures are popular, and I would like to get more involved in that side of Modern Chinese Coins, but my attention is currently tied up in Pandas... the more I dig into Pandas, the more questions and ideas I have.

    8. The Shanghai coin market that you frequently visit to hunt for bears, do they sell other coins besides pandas? I am assuming they do. One day I would like to go there and hunt for my missing forbidden city coin.
    A. The Shanghai Coin market does sell other coins beside Pandas. If you do ever hop across the border to Shanghai, it would be my pleasure to show you around.


    9. I am also told that coins in China are more expensive, would that be true?
    A. Are Modern Chinese Coins most expensive in China? Yes and No... some are vastly cheaper, some are vastly more expensive.
    E.g. 1989 and 2011 Pandas are much cheaper in the USA than they are in China.
    E.g. 2011 gold Pandas are cheaper in China than they are in the USA.
    These are fairly lame examples... I'll try and come up with some bigger ticket items later... I'm just rushing out the door.

    At the moment there are some pretty huge PHWOAR! type of Bargains in the USA on Modern Chinese Coins. Someone got some 1989 1oz Silver Pandas for around $65AUD!

    10. Sorry for asking too much ...just curious ;)

    A. No problems asking many questions. It's my pleasure to help. Pandas are something that I enjoy investing, collecting and discussing.

    Cheers,
    Xxxxxxx

    I hope all this helps, and makes sense (and cents),
    Yennus.
     
  2. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    The guide has 10 columns.

    The first is ID number, his way of classifying coins I guess.

    The second is name of the coin.

    3rd is year.

    4th is face value.

    5th is weight.

    6th is diameter.

    7th is planned mintage. ( means 10,000 so 7 means 70,000; some day 5000/ which means 5000 set)

    8th is 'actual' mintage as per Mr Ge's estimates (which are pretty good).

    9th is Reference price (which is damn inaccurate, you should be using this price guide for mintage numbers not prices).

    10th is the mint it's made at. = Shanghai. is shenyang and there's a few others I have no idea what they are.

    Pretty much what yennus said is correct. Different people prefer different set of coins (either OMP or graded). I buy both to cater to both markets but I think 69 grade Chinese coins are underpriced. Sometimes the raw costs almost as much as the 69 so I would get the 69.

    Haha Ben was so lucky, he told me about his panda hunt. I am hunting some sets online too, quite difficult to find the last coin. Unfortunately that will always be the case which is why there's a higher premium attached when you can sell/buy the whole set.

    The 1/2oz Gold pandas prices rose dramatically due to this. Collectors were trying to complete a 'tao' and as such drove the 1/2oz prices sky high.

    Heavily, no. But I know some that use it. Dealers worth their weight would know who Mr Ge is. It's a nice book, much like Peter Anthony's book.

    No. It is updated yearly and as such it is not remotely accurate now.

    I have avoided all the Mozart and Beethoven coins because they aren't true "Chinese" figures. If you want to target the Chinese demographic it is much better to target actual Chinese historical figures such as Li Sizhen, Cai Lun, Wu Zetian etc. I saw that Forbidden City set in 68-69 grade on eBay but it was missing a coin, I couldn't be bothered to buy heh. Good luck finding the last coin, I am also hunting my last coin for 1990 Historical Figures set...

    I know some older coins are very expensive in China and cheap in USA. Examples include 1980s fractional pandas. The buy back prices from a dealer I spoke to in China was slightly higher than my purchase price from USA, which is a lot considering the bid/ask spread is pretty large. There are different coins which are cheaper in different parts of the world. For example historical figures are cheaper in Europe than China because they were sent there and older pandas are cheaper in USA than China. 2012 Gold pandas are cheaper in China than overseas. I paid around 3.5% over spot for my 2012 1oz Gold panda in China, at BB it costs AU$1,732.49 which is 7.7% over spot. Even on Bullionmoney (which is very cheap) their Roos are around 5% over spot.

    Damn... my TV show still hasn't finished dling after typing this up :p
     
  3. rbaggio

    rbaggio Active Member Silver Stacker

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    What does 2-star mean?
     
  4. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    Degree of rarity, more stars means more rare.
     
  5. mfm

    mfm New Member

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    If you by China mean HK it may not apply so much...

    Chinese retail shops usually doesn't update the price after the spot price though, so if the spot price rises much after the shops bought the pandas you may be in for some bargains (also from currency fluctuations). But at 3.5% over spot a normal shop would be selling at around spot after they paid the CC fees, so it would be unacceptable for them if they themselves paid spot or more.

    The only time I found cheaper gold pandas in China than in Europe was after this summer after the gold price skyrocketed and the Chinese prices stayed the same. Of course, the mint was out of coins except for the all-sizes-sets (the ones which some people call proofs for some unknown reason) anyway... I didn't check if the new 2012 coins are cheaper though, but the cheapest 2011 1oz I found when checking some weeks ago was 11760 yuan (cash price), Shenzhen CGCI current price for them is 13400 yuan(!).
     
  6. fishball

    fishball New Member Silver Stacker

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    I paid cash in Hong Kong so yeah probably cheapest I could possibly get anywhere in the world (excluding shops that don't track spot properly as you said).

    The prices were marked to spot so it was pretty weird because they were marking each coin to spot... paid $20 HK more for a full set because of spot change.
     

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