Public Message from South Gippsland Bullion.

I just hope the government and ATO aren't working towards the introduction of an "amnesty" for declartion of PMs, or even a buyback program. Farfetched maybe, but so was the idea of GST on bullion coins a few weeks ago.

 

It sounds like it covers all bullion and so the size doesn't matter, and coins, rounds and bars are all to be taxed.

 

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-08/verrender-malcolm-turnbull's-post-gst-tax-options/7147382

 

They choose the parts of the GST ruling that supports thier argument.

For example, from one case:

 

"In addition, the fact that the coins have the year of manufacture on them implies they are only produced for a limited time. These coins are not bullion coins."

 

In this case the ATO would state that the bars are not traded solely on the basis of the prevailing spot price for their metal value only. A degree of rarity and the fact they are no longer manufactured would result in a ruling that they are collector bars and therefore not a precious metal for the purposes of the GST act.

 

They will change those wording as they go.

 

Its crazy, and disasterous for confidence. There's too much uncertainty now

 

LOL so equally the Perth Mint hasn't been charging GST on nearly its entire mintage of coins, but it should have been...

 

They're just going in circles from the bit which says the object

Coins bear an additional mark stating which year they were minted in.

Whoever wrote that private ruling determination seems to have figured that precious metals may only have fineness and quality marks. By the same logic, a generic bar that has a serial number on it is a "limited edition". You could also make the argument that stamping the manufacturer's logo on a bar makes it "collectible" because it doesn't explicity make any statement on quality, but in the real world it's understood to be a "good" brand e.g. Perth Mint, PAMP, RCM, etc.

BTW, if anyone can show me a coin that doesn't have the year it was minted on it, I'd be interested to see it.

 

LOL so equally the Perth Mint hasn't been charging GST on nearly its entire mintage of coins, but it should have been...

https://media.giphy.com/media/GjYjLvGErsggg/giphy.gif[/quote]

If the ruling just comes out, they can't back dated those acts.
May as well back dated the gst last century and say everyone owe to them.

What I am trying to say, is that the coins have been produce since before the gst era.
Putting a ruling like that will goes a long way. What sort of act or ruling is that?
Pre & post acts , ruling that implies complicate ruling. Therefore should be put in notices to public.

 

I did notice another point - the refiner must be in the business of refining. The person producing the "investment" bar may also be relevant here. I would envisage that "hobby" refiners should be charging GST on all of their products. Size of the business would be relevant here, however, when a company such as Perth Bullion buys from a "hobby refiner" and then resells that item, regardless of its specific form, GST should be charged on that item.

 

But are pre decimals taxable anyway?

According to the ATO:

 

OK since no-one else has said it:

This seems completely unworkable - nit-picking down to the level of what exactly is marked on any given bar, round or coin, and potentially re-assessing an item in the light of a subsequent secondary market.

Would it not make more sense to re-think the legislation to make it simpler and less broad? Surely the ATO cannot suddenly think it's a good idea to start enforcing a tax on almost all gold and silver products (including, obviously, most Perth Mint and RAM products) when it has never really come up in the decades-long history of the GST? How much revenue would it even generate?

 

Just focusing on mintage, I think the key determinant would be if the bar or coin was intended as "unlimited mintage" for that year, i.e., not artifically constrained in advance to a specific upper mintage limit. But of course in later years it may become collectable so what would that mean?

 

I don't think making a tax less-broad is popular with the government at the moment.

 

That just proves it's a good idea

 

But are pre decimals taxable anyway?

According to the ATO:

[/quote]

No, it is more, Govt: Do you own bullion?
Me: No (not according to your definition of bullion.)[/quote]

Thinks they own debts more than anything.
Fashionable across the world
Who have the most of... in the ranking

 

Yes, well we would like to know that also. Some people dont really care what the image on the coin/bar is, some people do, its a highly subjective topic. In the end no matter what is on the bar/coin lay it on the table at the bullion dealer and he is going to pay spot - metal content only.

If I could speak my mind at the moment I would make a sailor blush.
I have been quoted from this forum, enough said.

 

LOL so equally the Perth Mint hasn't been charging GST on nearly its entire mintage of coins, but it should have been...

https://media.giphy.com/media/GjYjLvGErsggg/giphy.gif[/quote]

Yep, apparently.
The big boys are in play now so yeah get the popcorn on, shit is going down big time.