PMs in SMSF

Discussion in 'Superannuation' started by zargor, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. zargor

    zargor Member

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    Hi All

    If members hold PMs in their SMSF, what do they tend to hold?

    Is it Gold, silver, other metals, a mix?

    What do you find best to hold in terms of your circumstances (e.g. 1 oz Gold, 50 oz Gold, smattering of other metals?)

    Just curious to see what diversity we may have in holdings.

    Zargor :)
     
  2. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Unallocated for me.

    No need for insurance, no need for storage fees, very liquid so facilitates trading, gold to silver ration swaps are simplified.

    There is a grey area surrounding what form the metal can be held in with an indistinct area encompassing collectible numismatics and bullion, one you can have with no strings the other is more problematic. It is all down to interpretation and in a court of law they might not go with your interpretation.

    Gold would be good for storing and preserving wealth, it is apparently less volatile and is going up so when you retire you should get your money back. Silver is a more risky investment vehicle as it is all over the place, you may make a fortune or you may lose some value.

    As with all investments, you need to diversify unless you are 100% sure it is going to work out for you.
     
  3. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    but also, a rich man once said, put all your eggs in one basket, then watch that basket very closely. :)
     
  4. zargor

    zargor Member

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    I take it you mean that the numismatics may be classed as collectibles and be subject to new rules in the SMSF, whilst bullion is OK to hold without the mandatory storage and insurance requirements?

    Zargor :)
     
  5. hiho

    hiho Active Member Silver Stacker

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    all your eggs in one nest guard it like a hawk? ;)
     
  6. Fykus

    Fykus Member Silver Stacker

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    with what little i have in my smsf, ive got some silver in unallocated holdings with goldstackers. i figure since im young silver will be an alright choice and when the time is right i can do some gsr swaps while we ride the bull market. hopefully itll work out for me, if not oh well theres plenty of years to accumulate some more money into my smsf.

    thinking of possibly turning it into physical if i ever hit 1000 ounces of unallocated or if i deem that theres some external reason to have physical on hand.
     
  7. hyphenated

    hyphenated Active Member

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    Unallocated for me too, although PM is around 15 per cent. On the one hand it's only paper (but then again, so is most of your SMSF, if you think about it, unless you have gone the physical PM only route or perhaps property); but no fees, easy to reallocate, and there is the ironic possibility that it would survive a governmental seizure simply because it *wasn't* physical. Go figure.

    I have a chunk in a capital retention fund, also.

    Oh - 25% Silver, 75% Gold by value. For no particular reason.
     
  8. Emanance

    Emanance New Member

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    Personally I'm all in with unallocated Gold & Silver and hopefully soon a little bit of Platinum. Just remember with unallocated your buy price don't mean much cause you have to sell back to the guy your bought from, or take delivery from. Hence the premium over spot you are paying to buy an unallocated ounce or kilo doesn't mean much if they are buying back at 3-5% under spot. Getting hit in the face by the door on the way in is one thing, but you don't need it to hit you again on the way out.
    Gold Stackers unallocated program (http://www.goldstackers.com.au/store/unallocated.html) buys back at current spot price, and carries the premium ($30 over spot on Gold ounces & Silver kilos.) over to any physical purchases. They have even geared their system to allow timely GSR switches, if you want to play the ratios. Personally I could't find a better deal than that.
    Here's hoping your rollovers are refunded in a timely manner, specially with Gold & Silver on sale and all at the moment :).
     
  9. Randallflagg

    Randallflagg New Member

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    Been on the site for a few months and I believe this is my first post which I will now use to say: unallocated? Makes me nervous even though I understand the utility of the option in certain circumstances.
    WA here allo all....:p
     
  10. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    A bullion coin from the Perth Mint = 1oz so approximately $30 worth of silver. But it has a face value of $1.

    Therefore it has a value over and above its face value, and therefore could be interpreted as a numismatic / collectable depending on who is doing the interpreting. Personally any physical silver I would hold inside a SMSF would be in bar form. You won't get any numismatic appreciation but you won't come across any compliancy issues either.

    If you wanted to stack numismatic items I would do that outside of the SMSF.
     
  11. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hi! Welcome aboard!

    Four years ago I only stacked pre decimal silver. Then I added some gold, then some pure silver, then some bars, now unallocated. Each additional was a major change and a step outside my comfort zone but so far I haven't regretted any of the decisions!

    As to keeping all your eggs in one basket and really keeping an eye on that basket, if I did that my entire retirement fund would be in Star Wars figures or Magic the Gathering Cards (and I reckon I would be even better off).

    Unfortunately with the SMSF it isn't just you keeping an eye on the investment, the Government is helping you by bringing out new rules and regulations and interpretations every month. It is hard to look after the basket when someone keeps peering inside it to see what you have and whether they approve.
     
  12. browski

    browski Member

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    So..........if I wanted to purchase PMs for my SMSF and hold them myself.........is this possible?
    Must I have the auditors physically inspect for their actual existence every year?
     
  13. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes. And you can store them on your front lawn if you want to. It's your risk, your responsibility.

    Good luck finding one that would want to.

    SMSF's carry artworks held in disparate locations, collectible cars, wine (i'm sure on this one but) if an auditor felt the need to check, they'd never get back to their office. Their job is to ensure the papertrail is legitimate. Where did you spend the money from your Superfund's Acct, have you got receipts that add up to that value? Their job is to check compliance with the legislation (tax, contributions, captial gains, dividend or other incomes, trust expenses and deductions etc...they've got enough to do... it's not their job to police your trust.

    Ripping off your own superfund is like holding yourself hostage with a gun to your head.... the only one you're risking is yourself.

    The Feds might get a little uppity though... they seem to think ripping off SMSF's is their job :)
     
  14. browski

    browski Member

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    (Mental note to move gold from front lawn.)
    Do you only require the purchase invoice in the SMSF's name, or do you need some other documentation?
     
  15. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I've never had any auditor inspect mine. The most I've ever been asked for was a photo with it on a current newspaper.
     
  16. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Funny they never make you insure shares. Some shares are more risky than a casino.
     
  17. Fykus

    Fykus Member Silver Stacker

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    only gotta insure them if they are numismatics i think. if you just say its bullion then it doesnt need to be insured.
     

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