Perth Mint Holey Dollar & Dump

Discussion in 'Silver Coins' started by SilverSale, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. SilverSale

    SilverSale Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    Am I missing something here? Another profiteering attempt by Perth Mint?

    Perth Mint has released a new coin set to commemorate the 200th anniversary of the Holey Dollar & Dump.

    The originals (to my understanding) were 1oz silver for the Holey Dollar & The Dump was an additional 1/4oz of silver.

    In true Perth Mint style, the commemorative version has less silver than the original - a total of 1oz silver for the 2 coins combined.

    ...and asking $119

    It has a small mintage, but I certainly won't be touching this copy which costs more than the original, and has less silver!
     
  2. Naphthalene Man

    Naphthalene Man Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Hunter Valley, NSW
    Ha! Typical
     
  3. House

    House Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2012
    Messages:
    9,708
    Likes Received:
    307
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Stack City
    Ah but it's a proof set :rolleyes:
     
  4. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    15,524
    Likes Received:
    1,318
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    here there everywhere
    Nice enough coin
    BUT
    The usual crap packaging ( as expected )
    All the previouse D&D have been a flop , so just wait for these on the secondary market ;)
     
  5. anonmiss

    anonmiss Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    South Australia
    Perth Mint FAIL again.
    What a pi** poor attempt from them. Not only have they not come up with anything original but they are screwing joe public for all they are worth by not following the traditional silver Holley Dollar and Dump 1.25oz.
    And whats wore is they don't announce in the description they your not getting that full 1.25oz you have to go to the SPECIFICATIONS TAB to find out the weight.
    Thats just plain sneeky, how many people will order the Holey Dollar and Dump and get a rude shock when it arrives.
    Just another reason to add to the list of why I don't but numi releases from the Perth Mint.
     
  6. SilverSale

    SilverSale Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    Yep- i thought exactly the same! Something smelt fishy, and sure enough it was...

    Smells like a duck, quacks like a duck. Perth Mint pulling another dodgy!
     
  7. Ron Currie

    Ron Currie New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    The Spanish American 8 Reales used for the Holey Dollar and Dump weighed 27 grams (or 0.95oz) of 900 fine silver. (Independently verified by a leading Australian rare coin dealer).

    The Perth Mint commemorative Holey Dollar and Dump Set has a certified silver content of 1.0078 Troy oz of 99.9% pure silver.

    More information about our 200th Anniversary of the Australian Holey Dollar and Dump 2013 Silver Proof Coin Set: http://www.perthmint.com.au/catalog...llar-and-dump-2013-silver-proof-coin-set.aspx
     
  8. SilverSale

    SilverSale Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    Royal Australian Mint made their Commemorative Holey Dollar & Dump set with 1.25oz silver.

    Perth Mint has made their set with less silver. No surprise there.

    So, did RAM put too much silver in their version? I'll let you be the judge.

    Either way, Perth have tried hard to hide the amount of silver their version contains, hiding it on a specification tab.
     
  9. argento

    argento Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,215
    Likes Received:
    102
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Interesting response Ron.

    I think the problem/confusion has been bought about by the Perth Mint, with earlier holy dollar and dump releases.
    The 1988/1989 & 1990 releases were all 1.25oz , then when they released the historical coin collection in 2005/2006 the holy dollar in that particular series was 1oz without the dump, then there have been other perth mint releases for the holy dollar and dump that have been 1oz in total.

    I suppose the question should be , how many weight variations is the Perth Mint going to use with future holy dollar and dump releases.

    To try and make reference to the current coin being close in weight to the origional is a lost point, based on earlier releases.
     
  10. hotdogma

    hotdogma Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2012
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    with Major Tom
    Wow - what an absolute joke.

    I picked up 2003 Holey Dollar and Dump, in box with COA for a bit over half that - this version is 54.3 grams ASW! on secondary market. Sold it a few months later to another stacker for same price as it wasn't inline with my stacking strategy.

    But it is a real shame that Perth Mint can't get their shit in a stack, as I like the concept, I like the history, I like buying Aussie made where possible and I like the story that comes with holey dollars, but at any margin higher than ASE's (with their A1 liquidity) is just a pineapple up the ass.

    f__k that noise :cool:
     
  11. anonmiss

    anonmiss Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    South Australia
    Wow so in 1998 the Perth Mint released a holey Dollar and Dump commemorating the 175th anniversary of the coin and the coins weigh 1.25oz.
    Now lucky us to commemorate the 200th anniversary we get to pay top dollar for 1.oz!!!!
    Keep up the good work Ron.
     
  12. lostwords

    lostwords New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Actually,I was tempted to pickup the 2003 holey. Saw one on ebay around $75 AUD and it has 2oz of silver. But the shipping fee to Canada is a bit too high for me to pull the trigger
     
  13. boffin1979

    boffin1979 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks fellas! I was just about to order one of these, but changed my mind now after receiving all your advice. Typical of WA Govt organisations...deceive the public, fleece the public and try not to get noticed. The perogative of the parasite throughout the ages!!

    Instead, I bought another 10oz of US Eagles for $320 inc shipping. I feel good!!
     
  14. volrathy

    volrathy Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,014
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Blue Haven NSW
    not too bad with shipping
     
  15. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    17,940
    Likes Received:
    435
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I don't see the issue - it's a modern numismatic, if you're buying it based on the actual silver content, why bother - none of the Perth Mint numismatic products are designed for silver investing, and never have been - so why should this one be different? Anyone paying $119 would be based on speculating it would increase in value, or be because you're a fan of the coin - not because it's 1.25oz of silver.

    If you want a 1.25oz holey dollar, the ones from 1988, 1989 and 1990 are available in the secondary market for 10-20% over spot.

    The specs aren't hidden - they are in bold letters in the advertising A-feature on the homepage of the Perth Mint numismatic website - "2013 1oz Silver Proof Coin Set". It's $4.50 more than the price of the Mythical Creatures Griffin - which is also 1oz. Don't you all think there might be a little bit of extra work involved in preparing two sets of dies and striking two coins over one? A $4.50 price difference actually looks like good value - IF collecting them is your thing.

    And what the hell has the price or margin of an ASE got to do with the price of modern proof numismatics released for a collectors market?

    MODERN NUMISMATICS ARE NOT BULLION!!!
     
  16. SilverSale

    SilverSale Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2009
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Australia
    GP - I know you love sticking up for the Perth Mint because you are a Perth Mint distributor.

    Slightly off topic but I noted that you also found no fault with the Perth Mint releasing 200,000 privy dragons.

    So when is something a numismatic, and when is it bullion?

    A privy release has generally been considered a numismatic in the past. Ie mintage of around 5000 coins.

    Now that privy's are being released at quantities of 200,000 (similar to bullion) does this make it bullion or numismatic?

    The rules have changed so that something may be called numismatic or bullion when it suits them.

    I applaud boffin for recognising the fine line between bullion & numismatics and not getting sucked in.
     
  17. Captain Kookaburra

    Captain Kookaburra Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    5,012
    Likes Received:
    480
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Dragon privvy is a bullion coin. Would not consider it a numismatic in any way.

    You can argue that the standard dragon has some numismatic value. But the privvy is just a pretty lump of silver. If you want to buy some at inflated prices thats merely a poor investment choice (imo).
     
  18. hiho

    hiho Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,965
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    South Brisbane
    dont let the facts get in the way of a good agenda ;)
     
  19. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2009
    Messages:
    17,940
    Likes Received:
    435
    Trophy Points:
    83
    ...one that doesn't distribute their numismatic products. Thanks for the bias assumption though.

    I've pointed out on numerous occasions that they are a different coin to the regular bullion release, not sure where I "found no fault" with it - I've also pointed out on several occasions that a numismatist would never accept a privy Dragon in place of a standard Dragon if they were building a set, and that the privies would be part of a short set at best because there were no privies released of the previous SII coins. At best they are akin to the "advertising" series of Telecom Phonecards for anyone who remembers those in the 90s as they are a special release for a major overseas distributor.

    So not sure how that's "finding no fault". The Perth Mint puts mintage limits on a number of their bullion coins - including a limit of 350,000 on 1oz gold Kangaroos - does that make them numismatic? I mean, it's not even double the number of privy Dragons :rolleyes:

    Not hard to diffentiate between coins sold in shrinkwrapped capsules on a spot plus premium basis with no GST, and coins sold in packaging with COAs with fixed prices at multiples of spot including GST. On different websites by the manufacturer.
     
  20. anonmiss

    anonmiss Active Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    South Australia
    The PROBLEM is that this appeares to be the only silver coin in the Jan 3rd release that does not indicate the actual silver weight in the first two lines of the description on the Perth Mint home page. Instead to find out the actual silver weight you need to trawl thru the specifications tab. Why would the Perth Mint change its standarded description of new releases and leave out the weight of this particular coin? Its not about numismatics vs bullion its about the Perth Mint being SNEEKY!! Be consistant or have your customer base loose even more faith in you Perth Mint!
     

Share This Page