Hello all, I'm new to this forum, so if this question is frequantly asked or has been answered before, then I apologise for the noise. I don't want to keep my PM at home, since it's not safe enough, not practical etc. I'd like to know what options exist in Sydney (CBD area would be ideal). What's the typical price for a storage about a shoebox of size? What security guarantee I can get? Etc. I contacted my bank (Commonwealth Bank) about it, and they say that they can provide a space about a building brick (whatever they mean by this) and some branches even require my own safe box, since they don't have ones and provide only "space". I can't believe there is no decent company in the CBD area that could give a good secure storage box. All thoughs and suggestions are welcome and much appreciated. Thanks.
some bullion dealers like http://www.abcbullion.com.au/ let you store with them in different formats. Some dealers like www.bullionmark.com.au sells unallocated PM with storage option. Quite a few others too. Caveat bout bank deposit boxes are like the raids happening in California and UK, where government are raiding them- not sure if they will ever happen or not in Australia.
If you're looking for deposit boxes in the Sydney CBD, there are no good private companies that do it, to my knowledge. For example, we don't have a service like CHUBB doing that sort of thing. I have heard that GUARDIAN VAULTS is setting up in Sydney (they're a Melbourne operation). But don't know when they will open or how much they will charge. Other option is the big 4 banks, but they have limited boxes available and will usually put you on a waiting list. Price for a smallish box would be (from memory) about $500-$700 a year. Other CBD option would be some of the foreign banks. HSBC has (had) some deposit boxes but I think that was in the North Sydney branch. Your best bet may be Bank of China in Haymarket. They have deposit boxes at the current market price but you will need to open an account with them to qualify (min $1000AUD). And as people said, although I believe the risk is low, placing your PMs in a deposit box introduces a counterparty to your holdings and there is a risk. However, I believe it would be safer that getting an unallocated holding in a bullion dealer's vault.
I have a HSBC deposit box (Large Size) that stores my numismatic and bulky stuff. Also use Guardian in Melbourne and am going the unallocated option on Silver this week or next. My Gran used to say something about Eggs and baskets.
It appears that forum software requires 600 seconds cooling period between posts, so I'll gather all my answers in one post. Sorry for the inconvenience. I checked a couple of companies. Unfortunately they are too greedy. They charge % of total quantity and it becomes quite expensive very quickly. If I understand correctly, these boxes in UK/California were not just random boxes, but belonged to people police was tracking. So, they obtained an order first to get access to them. I'm not a lawyer, so correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK safe deposit box requires the same search warrant as your home. I have no idea how it is in NSW, Australia, though. Yes, I found a topic on this forum about GUARDIAN VAULTS' press release. I hope they will open their branch soon. It's quite strange that in one of the biggest business districts in Southern hemisphere there is no decent secure storage. I would expect many companies competing on this market, since demand for the service is clearly there. Thanks for the information. I've noticed that several people suggested Bank of China in this forum (in other topics). I'll check them. Isn't it ironic that we live in so called free and capitalist society resort to services of a communist bank? Hehe. I contacted my CBA support and they said that it's $50 p/a for a box "of a building brick" and I need to enquire specific branches, since not every branch will provide a box (WTF?). It's not expensive but leaves bad aftertaste. It seems that secure storage is not their priority or they don't care enough. Also, they charge you $12 every time you want to access your box. Thanks for the info. I'll check HSBC in Sydney. May I ask what's their price range for this? Do they charge for each access, as well? Unfortunately, here in Sydney I couldn't find a company like Guardian Vaults, so this is not an option for me. She was a wise woman, no doubt. That's why I want to have a couple of places where I can dump my treasures. I don't need many of them, though, since I don't have many "eggs". I've got an impression that many companies (maybe all of them) practice the same fractional reserve with PM's as banks do with money. So, they assume that people will never demand their metals all at once and there is much more paper than physical metals. I'm a bit paranoid about these things. I'd like to have physical metal and healthy sleep at night. Unfortunately, silver is less practical due to big volume per $. Any non-trivial investment requires a lot of storage.
Always read through the fine-print and ask a lot of questions. Be particular who has title to the metal. Drop in from time to time
If I understand correctly, these boxes in UK/California were not just random boxes, but belonged to people police was tracking. So, they obtained an order first to get access to them. I'm not a lawyer, so correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK safe deposit box requires the same search warrant as your home. I have no idea how it is in NSW, Australia, though. In UK, claimed to be tracking the underworld activity... In California, recalling from my memory,many owners-ordinary people found their box busted and proceed for the better good of California. There was an article bout the government raiding boxes for the state coffers.
I found the article: Not-So-Safe-Deposit Boxes: States Seize Citizens' Property to Balance Their Budgets. Quite disgusting, what can I say... I wouldn't expect such daylight robbery of its citizens even in Bankruptfornia. I agree 100%. However, to understand all these subtleties (or even to know where to look) requires experience and qualification. I'm not a professional trader/dealer and Im not looking for megaprofits. All I want is to preserve my meager savings. Maybe in the future, when I gain some experience I'll deal with unallocated metals.
Interesting feedback u got from cba support. They got safe boxes at martin place n haymarket branch, under safe custodian department. U can access 12 times only in a year. Over that, they will charge $15 per visit. Cba safe vaults charges per annum are the cheapest among other banks. I never heard about that $50 one. Hmm will do the check.
Thanks for the information. This is the CBA's answer: Now, here is the page from CBA's FAQ section: How much does safe custody cost? There is link to the Fees and Charges brochure, which doesn't mention boxes at all, but mentions "envelops". (Or I missed the section somehow.)
That is NOT a safe deposit box service. It's a custodian service. ANZ and HSBC in Melbourne have proper safe deposit box services with two-key access in presence of a staff member, surely there are some bank branches in Sydney with equivalent services.
So, in conclusion, you've got less metal than will fit in a space the size of a house brick, $50/year is too expensive and a chinese bank sounds safer than your house?
I'm not sure I follow your question. $50 p/a is very cheap. I was talking about other companies like ABC, which charge percentage of the stored value. Here's the ABC's web page: How to store gold bullion and precious metals. They charge $18.50/$12.50 per oz p/a for gold. So, for example, for $100K of gold (~62.5 oz) the price is ~ $780 p/a. Silver is even more expensive. Yes, they provide an insuance, as well. So, probably it's not such a bad deal after all. However, ABC requires full ID for everything (at least this is how it looks like according to their website info), so I'm not terribly excited about this. That's why I started this topic to figure out what options are available in Sydney.
Not current advice but: Last time I checked (ages ago) CBA's "proper" safety deposit box (CBD/Martin's Pl) was full with a waiting list. HSBC and BoC are both alternatives but I have no idea if it's a proper one or just a crappy box.
I've just called CBA support line and they said that safety deposit boxes start from $65 p/a with 1 free access per month and every subsequent access $5.45. The final price will depend on the size of the box. So I'm going to visit a couple of branches soon to compare prices. The box itself is actually less important. It's more about the safe room and the building. Once you're in the room, the box won't make much difference. The bigest risk here is the government, which can confiscate the contents etc. And there is no wall thick enough to stop it.
