Looking for opinions on a new Super fund

Discussion in 'Superannuation' started by harry_mr, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    Thanks for the information, I had no idea I could actually do this!
    This now leads me to another question which I think is not possible, can I purchase my own stack with my SMSF money and place it in my safe, then use the proceeds of the sale to pay down my mortgage?
     
  2. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    You would need proof of ownership of your stack and would need to supply your smsf with tax invoice and then pay any GST to the ATO. Probably doable but a can of worms.
     
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  3. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    That part, yes, just buy your gold from any dealer using the SMSF account funds.
    The great thing about SMSF is that you can do pretty much anything you want with it. You just have to follow your "investment plan", just a one page template thing saying what you plan to do and why.
    And the tax department can't question your decision, because you as the company director have the right to make the investment decisions, good or bad. Your investment plan could say "I'm going 100% metal because the government is going to collapse and aliens will invade and it'll be SHTF".
    You just need to document it.

    Err, no, not unless your house owned by your super fund, and even then you wouldn't be allowed to rent it to you.
    If you are in one of the various stages of retirement then you can start taking money out, in those cases you should get professional advice.
     
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  4. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    He means can his SMSF purchase from himself the various precious metals he already owns as part of its investment instead of buying from a precious metals dealer.
     
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  5. Ipv6Ready

    Ipv6Ready Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    This would/could open a can of worms, ie capitol gains on the non super gold holdings.
    Once you generate a tax invoice for $insert spot per ounce but you bought it at half the cost twenty years ago, it would generate a capitol gains on the gold. Of course you can state the gold was bought it at current spot as well to sell to smfs but if audited it can get painful.
     
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  6. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Not worth the headache. Better to liquidate current stack, pay down mortgage, and start separate stack for the SMSF if you were inclined to do so. Honestly id just keep the stack and start a second one with SMSF as long as the mortgage was manageable. Worry about paying it down when you get closer to retirement.
     
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  7. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Oh, in that case, almost certainly not, unless he is a Pty Ltd company. Just like you can't rent a SMSF property to yourself, but you can rent a SMSF property to a company that you own. i.e. they can't stop a company (SMSF) doing business with other companies, even if you are the owner and director of said companies. But they can stop you doing business with yourself as an individual.
    It's how they stop the little guy rorting the system but leaving a loophole for the bigger players to rort the system. (Not that it's hard to form a company, just extra paperwork and cost)
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  8. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If I establish an esuperfund, could my wife's super be directed there too or would I need two separate SMSF through esuperfund?
     
  9. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    A SMSF can have up to four trustees, but you can't handle the super money of someone who's not a trustee.
    https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/superannuation-and-retirement/self-managed-super-fund-smsf
    Just put your wife down as one of the trustee's and she'll be automatically included in the esuperfund online transaction system, then you just submit the usual super transfer paperwork to her employer.
    At the end of the year you get a drop down box on all account transactions in esuperfund to chose which trustee the payment was for.
     
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  10. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    This is exactly what I wanted to know thank you.
    So a trustee is the same as a member for a traditional fund? Each trustee will have a separate Super balance?
     
  11. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, trustees are members, but also joint owners of the fund (company director effectively). I don't recall if it's possible to be just a member and not a company director.
    There is only one joint SMSF bank account, but the eSuperfund system forces you to associate each transaction with a particular member (you do this at year end and it takes minutes, real easy), So the system knows what balances belong to who, and you can select and view account member balances but it's a bit messy. But there is only one joint bank account, and one joint share fund so you can't tell from just the account balances who owns what, you have to use the esuperfund system to track it, and I haven't really looked into that in detail. Might be a bit messy in paperwork if someone had to leave.
    SMSF law dictates that the SMSF must administer the account for each member though I believe.

    A cool thing about a SMSF is that is that it gives you a warm fuzzy every time you log into your bank account. I use Commonwealth for everything, so all my personal, business, and SMSF account all show up on the one screen and it gives you one big total.
     
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  12. ddevil

    ddevil Active Member Silver Stacker

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    You don't need to use organisations like ESuper. All you need to do is get it set up through an accountant and then you can administer it yourself. It will be a lot cheaper in the long run!
     
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  13. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Cheaper maybe, but eSuperfund ($999 a year) is pretty easy to use. But if you want to do something outside the normal then certainly use your own accountant.
     
  14. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    I'm trying to find out what the setup and ongoing fees are for simply buying and holding PM in a safe located at home
    My strategy would be to make 12 purchases each month for one year, averaging out the price at a rate similar to the current silver/gold ratio (approx 90:1)
    I'm semi retired and live off rental income, I no longer conventionally work but trickle money into my super, so its a once off buy, set and forget scenario
    Ive looked up a few places and found the following:
    1) Regarding establishment fees...'The upfront or establishment costs will be determined on whether you have an individual trustee or a corporate trustee but we always recommend a corporate trustee. If you use a Corporate Trustee, it should be no more than $1,400 to 2,000 to setup inclusive of the $479 ASIC Incorporation Fee. You do not apply for an ABN and TFN for Bare Trust/Trustee'

    2) Regarding ongoing fees...'The total of fees should not exceed $2,000 per annum if you have a simple fund and online providers are bringing the costs down dramatically with a $79 – $189 per month fee covering Admin and Audit.'

    The ongoing annual fees Ive figured out so far is
    ATO Levee $400
    ASIC company fee $50
    Accountant fee for SMSF tax return $?
    Audit fee $500-$1,000?
    Is there anymore?

    Do I need to set up a company or is there another instrument I can use?
    Cheers
     
  15. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    You must have at least two Trustees to use the private option:
    https://www.esuperfund.com.au/smsf-trustees
    No real difference for what you want to do.

    If you are "semi-retired" then you are likely in one of the "phases" of retirement super. Speak to an accountant to advise on what you can do. It would probably be best if you can start extracting money from the super fund under one of these phases and buy the metal personally.
    https://www.superguide.com.au/superannuation-topics/transition-to-retirement-pensions-trips

    FYI, eSuperfund's $999 fee includes the management, accounting, and audit.
     
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  16. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    Thanks for that Silver, I bit the bullet and applied with esuperfund

    I took the option of registering a company for my super (Corporate trustee) and I'm filling out the formwork to upload

    Ive just come accross this statement regarding 'insurance' which I understand would be life insurance?

    They say 'The Trustee notes that they cannot accept the transfer of an existing insurance policy from a member, or a relative of a member but may arrange new Insurance cover for members within the Fund.’

    Is this life insurance, because I have an existing life insurance that started in 1998. I was going to roll over the vast majority of funds from my retail but leave enough to service my existing death benefit policy (they told me they will cancel the policy if I roll over ALL of my money and close the super account)
     
  17. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, worth keeping an existing fund open with a minimal amount to keep an important life insurance product going.
    I know someone in this position who due to a severe medical event can't get new insurance so has to maintain his old fund for that.
    New insurance under eSuper is easy, just buy it from whomever and pay for it from the SMSF account. At year end you just match up that transaction with the Trustee it's for and upload the cover document.
     
  18. Alfie

    Alfie Member

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    Thanks Silver
    Looks like its quite easy to get even better cover by starting afresh
    The quote I received today is $10 more per fortnight but it's for a sum 10% higher, is indexed and covers TAPI
    This way I can completely close my super, transfer all my funds to my SMSF and throw a couple hundred bucks a month to keep everything ticking over
     
  19. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm with AGI in the SMSF.
    Haven't re-quoted since I started though.
    Might go to a broker an see what they can get, plus I'd like to get some income protection insurance as well if it's affordable. A package that covers both might be better value.
     
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  20. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Is insurance a compulsory component of a SMSF? Or any super? Can we opt out of insurance completely with esuper?
     

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