Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by Blockhead, Jun 30, 2011.
Is melb better place buying PM than sydney?
I do travel to vic occassionally.
For me it is ,I know all the dealers in town & purchase from all of them
It pays to be nice to them .there's three Melbourne sponsers who get all my $ ,hint hint
I took a friend in once for their first purchase spanner and after the money and coins were exchanged they asked for a receipt. The dealer just stared at my friend and in the pregnant pause that followed I pointed to the gold coins and said "That is your receipt "
I have read a lot of warnings about confiscation around the traps, usually the American variety of course. But here in Australia it was also forbidden to hold or sell gold bullion between the 1930's and 70's. This could well surface again as the legislation is still in place apparently.
There is always loopholes for astute holders though, secrecy and obfuscation being the necessary tools. There will always be buyers, even if you have to melt it down and form it into wedding bands. That would be Plan (g). Plan (c) would be exchanging it with Asian shopkeepers for your grocery account or other needed goods. Plan (z), leaving it for your kids. Lets hope we never get to plan (z) lol
There are some new proceeds of crime laws that have come in recently that allows the police to seize anything in a house occupied by someone who's been busted for selling drugs. If your housemate buys a couple of eckys on behalf of some of their mates, they're a dealer as far as the cops are concerned and your metal is liable to be confiscated, unless you can prove it's yours rather than your dodgy housemate's.
I always ask if I can have a receipt before buying anything "just so I can say I didn't steal it". Never had a problem, even when I've suspected a deal might be being done off the other guy's books.
Do you have to pay GST to get that receipt A.D. ? If it ever came down to it, I suppose I could come up with a number of witnesses who would stand up in court and swear they were with me when I purchased it.
I'm currently looking into importing some rhodium bars. Does the same GST rules apply to this particular PM as it does for gold, silver and platinum? The purity is .999%
I'm new to the forum and this is my first post! I'm a bit stressed out at the moment and need some advice.
I bought some gold and silver bullion coins (approximately $4,000.00 worth) from overseas last week, which I intend to sell in Australia, and when I arrived in Australia I did the right thing and declared "yes" to the question "goods obtained overseas ... with a combined total price of more than AUD$900".
FYI The gold coins are a mixture, some are 999.9 purity, whilst the others are 917.0 purity (22 Karat). The silver coins are 999.9.
I was under the impression that all of these coins would be tax free, and that I wouldn't have any problems, and that I would walk through Customs with my coins. I didn't know anything about duty tax.
Customs went on to tell me that they have to confiscate my coins and hold them because I have not filled out an Import Declaration Form. Their advice to me was to engage a customs broker who would do all of the paperwork before they can release the coins to me. So unfortunately I have left the airport empty handed.
Subsequently, I have been doing some research on this forum aswell and google, and have sort of painted a picture, though it is confusing still.
This is what I think I know:
- the 999.9 gold and silver coins are GST free for a bullion dealer. OR GST input for personal use. Either way, these are not subject to GST. But they might be subject to Duty tax?? If so, at what rate?
- the 917.0 gold coins are subject to 10% GST, because even though they are clearly stamped with their fineness and their price fluctuates according to the spot price, and they are in investment form, because they are of less than 99.5% fineness, they are not considered a precious metal and therefore they do attract GST. Can someone confirm this? They might be subject to Duty tax?? If so, at what rate?
I'm considering filling out the N10 Import declaration form myself, however I'm thinking that it may be easier to go through a customs broker. But I don't want to get ripped off. It appears that I'm already going to get slugged with quite a high duty and tax bill, and I can't really afford to pay even more to a broker.
Some more questions which I'm unsure of are:
- what is the Customs Duty percentage rate for these gold and silver coins (999.0 and the 917.0)?
- would there be international transport and insurance costs to add? Would this mean that the cost of my flight to and from Australia would need to be added when calculating the Customs Value? I hope not.
My main question is, do you think I will be able to manage with doing the N10 form manually myself (has anyone successfully done this before?), or am I better off going through a Customs Broker (does anyone know of a broker that regularly deals with Bullion imports and doesn't charge too much)? I am from Melbourne.
Thank you very much everyone, and I look forward to hearing the advice of those more experienced than me.
Wow. First instance I've heard of gold being withheld by Customs on entry into Australia. Many people on this forum have brought in significant quantities on their person without that outcome.
There is no duty payable on bullion or coins - but the gold items below 99.5% purity will be subject to GST.
Years ago I used to import scuba equipment, and did all of my own customs declarations as it came in via the postal service rather than a courier company - I would do the forms yourself, they are not onerous.
You do not need to add the cost of your flights to the declaration - however if they were shipped here you would have to declare the shipping charges as part of the overall value from memory.
Bit disconcerting actually this incident. Presumably the proper thing to do is to declare gold and silver on arrival as goods - but if carrying them in coin form, there's the grey area of the face value of legal tender bullion being very low compared to the intrinsic value - I.e. a 1oz gold eagle is $50. They don't get treated as currency however when being imported by courier - they are assessed on the declared value.
As an international traveller the Customs experience at your destination is always a concern when moving gold - this is the first negative import experience I've heard of coming into Australia where it has been withheld. I always use the legal tender face value myself being under $10k, so not declarable. Have had Australian Customs inspections on arrival for things like declaring other goods, baby food etc, the gold has been seen, and never questioned.
Pity you are being stung for being honest
Massive heads up - did some digging on this and have been forwarded the following document on importing gold thanks to the guys at Port Phillip Publishing:
Personal effects means no customs declaration required. You should not have declared your gold, and upon declaring it, Customs should have clarified that this was not required if they were personal effects, i.e. not for commercial purposes.
If you declared them as goods you intended to resell here, then they would most likely be considered commercial goods.
Recommend that anyone carrying gold into Australia print and carry that document.
great find GP
Excellent find, cheers for that!!
Saving and printing this!
Hopefully SunnahMoney logs back in to see this. And lets us know how he goes
Not sure bullion would fit the definition of Personal Effects
Googled a definition:
Privately owned items, such as keys, an identification card, or a wallet or watch, that are regularly worn or carried on one's person.
I think it is more referring to jewellery and watches etc.
Yeah I was looking into this one as well:
There is a condition at the bottom:
3. other conditions and exclusions apply
Who is volunteering to shoot customs an email?
Thank you very much for providing this very valuable info I feel a lot better and secure now that I have more knowledge.
I will proceed to fill out the B650 (N10) import declaration form myself rather than going through a broker, because the link which GP has provided (the Customs factsheet on Importing Gold, Silver or Platinum) makes it clear that no duty is applicable at all for all of the coins, however I will need to pay GST on those coins which are less than 99.5% gold purity because I am intending to use these coins as "commercial goods" and not "personal effects."
It feels satisfying to be honest and declare these things and do things the right way! It's been a good learning experience so far.
This is an excellent forum and I'll be sure to keep a close eye on new posts
I consider money as part of my personal effects
Would be good to know if anyone has been questioned by the customs and has raised the personal effect argument and what was the reaction form customs.
Just joined this forum and some great info... thanks all!! Yes some good info here when certain metals minted by the government have a legal tender value.. US golden eagles = US$50 and silver eagles = US$1.. I recently experience a courier charging the me the market value of such coins and not the legal tender value... But i guess that would equate to the shipping insurance... if anything happened they were going off the legal tender value then you loose!
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