Income Inequality is the next challenge.

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by JulieW, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!

    Due to the horrible communist regimes, people cared more about each other, families and local communities were more cohesive, just because they weren't allowed to do almost anything "outside", so they did a lot more "inside": emotionally, in terms of relationships between people.

    The communist economic model was unsustainable and absurd, I don't see anything good about. So, this is not to praise anything about communism. Don't get me wrong.

    What I wanted to underline was mere spending/purchase behavior, lifestyle, ownership.

    Back then you could have. The proportion between salaries and expenses was better (in favor of economies).

    The bad part (this could be a long list) - just to name a few, from the point-of-view of the economy:
    - you were often limited by communist law (one could not own 8 houses, for example), they even limited people in owning just 1 TV/radio (in some countries, like Romania)
    - you were literally forbidden to travel abroad (slave to the regime, like in North Korea - again, Romania was very similar during Ceausescu's regime, East Germany was quite harsh as well, but not so much Hungary or Yugoslavia)
    - product scarcity (especially in the 1970's-1980's Poland and Romania throughout communism)
    - they gave away food tickets: you could buy bread, milk (again, rationing: just 1 per person/family)
    - food scarcity: you were happy if you could eat, let alone... eat well... (again: Romania is a sad example of famine in the 1980's)
    - if you could buy a limited amount of goods, property, you were not allowed to buy certain property of goods (like parabolic antennas were a taboo, you could not buy vast areas of agricultural land a person
    - almost everything was state-owned
    - yes, it was easier to buy a car, but you could only choose from like 3-4 types of cars... the total number of brands on the streets was probably limited to 7-8 at most!
    - currency was not convertible: you could not simply go on vacation to Germany, swap your Bulgarian currency and buy a nice Mercedes (even if you could, you would most likely buy peanuts with the same amount that would buy you a car in Bulgaria)
    - almost zero imports and if you had the rare chance to work abroad, you were usually not allowed to return with "too many" foreign goods (of much higher quality): like a modern car (for which you wouldn't even find accessories in case of repair, back in your home country)
    - almost zero entertainment (Romania, North Korea... but it was more flexible in Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, where there was plenty of censored "entertainment")

    There was no luxury in communism, not for ordinary people. It was Orwellian suffering. There was nothing to be happy about except the small things that really counted: family, friends, fishing, joking...

    Then came "capitalism":
    - higher wages, but much higher expenses
    - credits and credits upon credits; suddenly the former commie states themselves "woke up" in debt and what do they do then? (they tax the people, reduce wages, some even taxed pensions!)
    - the transition takes decades (even 30 years after the fall of communism, youngsters from the Ukraine, Bulgaria, Poland still move to the west... even more today: in search of better lives, much higher wages, better education)
    - unstable economies depending on a handful of major foreign investors: if one factory leaves, if shakes the economy of Slovakia or Bulgaria

    The East is suffering not only because of what communism had ruined, but also because of this harsh transition period, which erodes lives!

    And now: most likely an economic crisis will be a third layer on top of all the suffering. It's sad, indeed.

    Still: today the trend is towards less ownership.

    Airbnb, Uber... they don't even own their assets. And people seem to like the idea. Many are selling their lives to the companies that they work for.

    How trendy is it nowadays, how often do we heard this: don't own things, don't buy things, buy memories, buy experiences! <<< yet, it's so dumb, no matter how "Buddhist-Christian non-materialistic" it sounds, it's so irresponsible!

    OWN IT or it's not yours. Yes, BUY THINGS. And make sure you're buying the right THINGS. :D Stackers know best!
     
  2. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't either. Communism had nothing good in it. I was only underlining the trend: there's a shift (or a "slide") from ownership to various forms of non-ownership (like rentals).

    People living on credits and believing they can "rent through life" are dancing on a branch that's cracking under them. And they don't realize it.
     
  3. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Speaking of Russia:

    Death of Stalin.

    Highly recommended film.
     
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  4. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Can you cite any source material to back this up? You're arguing that people living under hostile regimes are more socially cohesive than those living in free societies, I'd say that the evidence to support that statement would be pretty light on.

    In fact, social cohesiveness is generally correlated with higher quality of life, access and use of technology, wealth, safety etc (see http://www.oecd.org/dev/pgd/46839973.pdf).
     
  5. madaw1

    madaw1 Well-Known Member

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    Please explain-what products you've got in mind. There was very bad in Romania I have to admit I've visited this country a few times but in Poland especially from 1974 when New Prime minister/First Secretary of Communist Party/ took over and the West has granted big loan to Poland ,the country had started to develop very quickly. I used to live in Poland at the time and was able to buy things, I still not able to buy now in Australia/like a lot of organic food, farmers products etc/.
     
  6. madaw1

    madaw1 Well-Known Member

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    Spot on-I would totally agree!!
     
  7. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    They dont have any private property rights at all under communism and it can be taken at any time. They dont own anything. They have no rights.
    Its communism.
     
  8. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    FALSE! In communism they own their property, just that the commies own them! :D

    TRUE: they don't have rights :D

    So, basically it's easy to own (if commies allow), but can steal it from you whenever they please (no property rights).

    During commie times countless homes were literally stolen from people, communists "compensated" them by giving them houseblock apartments (yes, in big ugly grey Orwellian house blocks, like the ones in Romania, Bulgaria...).

    Communism was disgusting, nevertheless.

    What I want some people to see is that we're heading towards a world where almost no-one owns anything. You will rent pretty much everything... perhaps even your wife one day. They'll invent an Airbnb for that too. Anyway, women don't like to be owned :D
     
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  9. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    What products I have in mind: any product, basically anything.

    For example:
    - food scarcity was a tremendous problem in the 1980's Romania (communism) and then later in the 1990's Bulgaria (crisis following the fall of communism)
    - medicine: similar, but even worse than food
    - various technical equipment (just use your imagination): in communism you can't find anything, the shops are typically empty; the communist countries don't import almost anything and are basically incapable of producing everything that people need (from TV's to wristwatches, from scooters to medical equipment)
     
  10. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    I saw it with my own eyes, for me that's proof enough :D

    If you want stats: check the stats about birth rates, marriage rates, abortion rates in various former communist countries.

    Yet, there are countless things you can't measure: you have to see. There's no data. And despite the data-mad world that we're living in, data isn't everything.
     
  11. JohnnyBravo300

    JohnnyBravo300 Well-Known Member

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    A rent-a-wife would be awesome!
     
  12. TreasureHunter

    TreasureHunter Well-Known Member

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    Bro, keep in mind that others would rent her out as well :p

    But for anything really valuable and rare, you'd have to book well in advance (nowadays even for tickets to Machu Picchu) o_O
     
  13. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    and what is the difference o here

    the gov can at any time kick you out of your house here as well with the stroke of a pen

    I would say people in COMMUNIST china have better property rights than we do -- we dont see pictures of highways being built around a single hold out (nail) house in Australia
     
  14. leo25

    leo25 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Japan have services where you can rent a wife or even a family.

     
  15. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    ahahaahha

    Dude they forced 2 million people out of their homes, evicted and demolished their homes for the Olympics alone. lol The gov even used the Olympics development as an excuses to evict people to knock down in old neighborhoods tobe sold off as new homes,
    many booted out with only days notice. lol
    They can tell you to piss out of your house here sure, but if a gov here decided to evict 2m people that gov would find them selves evicted from government. lol
    Better rights in a communist society lol thats a laugh, I dont think to many people consider China the pinnacle of human rights.

     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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  16. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    its all relivive China has 1.8 BILLION people vs our 24 million any works will displace more people again pepole being kicked out of their homes happens regulary here as well infact thousands are being removed in syndey for teh new rail way

    and again you dont see nail houses here in australia

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/...-nail-houses-in-pictures-property-development

    in australia your house would be demolished and gone and insufficent compensation offered China they CANT / DONT take the house and just build the road around it
     
  17. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    yer, they also cut all water, toilets drains, power and make it uninhabitable in an attempt to drive them out, once the occupant leaves the home they knock them down, so yer whats your point? those apartment building showing only one unit remaining, the occupants would have been inside those homes while they demolished the rest of the apartment block, Ive seen footage of the Chinese gov demolishing apartment blocks with people refusing to leave still inside, they just left their section standing in a structurally unsound way. lol
    All you have shown is people who are stubborn and have virtually been put in complete and utter poverty in dangerous houses with no water, power or sewage. do those look like safe inhabitable homes to you?
    You think that is a good thing? that shows a good government who respects people homes? lol ahaha, all of those houses will get demolished anyways,
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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  18. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    its got nothing to do with respect it is about property rights and again the very fact thes as you call it unsafe homes exists show they have greater RIGHTS than we do here again it wouldnt happen here you home would be taken and you thrown out on the street.
     
  19. Jason1

    Jason1 Active Member

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    you seriously think that demonstrates property rights??? lol ahaha
    leaving a persons house uninhabitable shows nothing towards the governments thoughts on property rights, lol

    as for your last part of your debate, the government made those houses unsafe lol, they semi demolished the homes around the occupants while they were still inside. lol
    That demonstrates Even less respect for property rights and even less respect for the health and well being of the home owner at the same time ahaha.
    the government would still get what it wanted at the end, those houses fall down, which they will and the road will be built, and the occupant gets No compensation at all,as they are essentially considered squatters at that point lol
    F'k me ahaha

    your idea of what constitutes property rights is a funny one. those Commies are so thoughtful and caring lol

    Its not even them a case of the state demolishing houses for infrastructure in China, the state often boots people out of their older properties on behalf of developers just to build things like luxury apartments. lol
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
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  20. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It ok ill accept that as you admitting your totally and utterly incorrect

    Nit all of the homes are left without water or electricity (in fact most still do have this)

    Again the property is still in their possession not the governments the complete opposite of what would happen here its ok your wrong accept your failure and move on
     

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