Importing Silver into Australia with orders over $1000?

Discussion in 'Silver' started by kek, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    Think you'll be out of luck - my understanding is that "non-numismatic" is specifically for 999 etc - to differentiate from proof 999 coins that would be GST liable.

    40% USA silver would attract GST.
     
  2. TET

    TET New Member

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    I guess that depends on how the ATO defines a numismatic coin.

    From the internet:
    A type of coin that typically has a higher value then the face value on the coin, due to historical information about the coin. Coins that are considered rare or considered ancient will often have a significantly higher monetary value than the suggested value. Numismatic coins are highly coveted by coin collectors because of their history and potential value.


    I don't think this applies to my coins. I'm not paying any premium based on their rarity or collector value.

    Wouldn't be suprised if you were right though, in terms of how the ATO would interpret it.

    EDIT:
    Found a lot of information here
    http://forums.silverstackers.com/to...ly-for-a-private-gst-ruling-from-the-ato.html

    I think you're right goldpelican, not looking good for me.
     
  3. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What if the transaction is based on face value at market rates?

    Say if you needed American coins to test the coin mechanism on a vending machine, you could get them at face value and the only sucky part would be paying a lot in postage.
     
  4. TET

    TET New Member

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    I agree.
    If I'm going to be taxed based on its silver face value I should be able to use the fact that it's silver bullion as my exemption.

    Otherwise, it's just face value American coins.

    It's one or the other. One this it isn't is Numismatic (A coin that is valued at a higher amount due to its rarity / collector demand)

    Edit: speling
     
  5. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    They'd probably ask to see proof of a vending machine business :/

    Good luck, but I'd expect to be hit with GST for that lot. I was going to buy a bag of Morgan dollars at one time but the GST issues knocked it on the head.
     
  6. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I can hook you up with a coin counting machine that needs to be recalibrated for the U.S. market...
     
  7. EasyCollective

    EasyCollective New Member Silver Stacker

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    I recently got called up for an order processed by TNT for under $1000 ($880), i had to remind him that over $1000 and he had a case. Under $1000 he had no leg to stand on...Parcel got put through an hour later.
     
  8. sj2can

    sj2can Member

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    One thing to also consider is that if you have paid the import tax/duty to the courier company and intend to apply for a credit / gst refund at a later date, they still may not waive the brokerage fee [it varies from company to company].

    Assuming you are only ever buying around the $1000 mark, keep it simple and stay under that $1000 mark.

    Note, the $1000 threshold doesn't include the postage but once it is exceeded the postage cost will be included when calculating your liability. i.e. You can import a $999 item with $5 shipping and generally be fine.
     
  9. monopolize

    monopolize Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Hi would someone be able to tell me what Tariff code to use for fine silver on the N10 import declarations form? Thanks in advance.
     
  10. Dynoman

    Dynoman Active Member

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    Hmmm, I just had the opposite experience with UPS. I located some Kooks at a good price in Singapore. The supplier asked me to verify the GST ruling to add to the delivery information for customs which I did. The tracking indicated it was awaiting customs clearance. The following day I received a call from UPS stating that I had to pay GST on the coins. I explained to him that the coins are 99.999 silver bullion coins and don't attract GST. He told me I was wrong and that only dealers are GST exempt. I asked him if the GST act had been changed because I didn't believe this to be correct. He told me the only way I could get my goods released was to pay the GST and that was that. I told him okay I'll pay the ransom and claim it back later on. He referred back to the dealer comment and at that point I gave way, allowed him to transfer me to a busy Chinese account lady who simply told me the amount and ask for my credit card details. I also told her that's fine I'm intending to claim it back later because they've misinterpreted the GST act. She became immediately agitated and bluntly requested that I confirm my payment information. I told her yes, please proceed with the payment. Then because I was also feeling somewhat agitated repeated that I intend to claim it back. I got the cursory "Is there anything else I can assist you with" "Yes" I replied "Process a reimbursement for my incorrect GST invoice" She said thank you and hung up on me.

    So things aren't so sweet at UPS lately for bullion importers.
     
  11. Mint Silver Coins

    Mint Silver Coins Well-Known Member

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    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    It is a gamble to import Bullion over $1000 AU ... I have had many shipments over $1000 AU slip through Customs,
    but recently I had a package held by customs on the 29th Aug and it took nearly a full month to finally receive it.

    I recently found out the hard way ... all the in's and out's of importation requirements, as I regularly import silver bullion from the USA to resell.

    The major catches to get your shipments (over $1000 AU) GST Free is ...
    * you must be a "Bullion Dealer" (as the main part of your business) and that you resell the bullion "at a price based on spot-price".
    * you must purchase the 999/9999 Precious Metal Bullion Coins/Rounds/Bars from a "Govt. Certified Refiner of Precious Metals" (Mints) "that sells based on spot-price"
    eg. I purchased 45 x 1 oz. 999 Silver Bullion Rounds from Golden State Mint in Florida (beside the Shipping and Credit Card Fee) this particular order was $1014 AU.

    After more than a week, I received a notice from the A.B.F. advising me they had confiscated my package and asked me to fill out a N10 Customs Import Declaration Form, they also advised me that I could contract a Certified Customs Broker (shark) to lodge the paperwork for me ... what a rort :(

    It took me a full day to find and learn all the legal conditions, laws and codes, needed to prove my case ...

    So I emailed the completed N10 Form and 7 additional pages of all the evident proofs,
    and after a further 5 days or so, I received an invoice to pay, being for:
    $0 GST owing, and
    $90 Form Processing Fee.

    So I successfully proved that I did not have to pay GST on 999/9999 Precious Metal Bullion imports over $1000 AU,
    but I still had to pay $90 via Bpay to the "Office of Home Affairs" (the Bpay name shown for the Biller-code entered)

    How is that fair? I had to pay $90 for them to process the N10 Declaration Form - in which I proved that I did not owe any GST.
    After I paid the (ransom) I mean invoice LOL ... my shipment was released back to Aust. Post and took over a week to get from Sydney to Cairns.
    After nearly a months delay, I was very relieved when my shipment finally arrived. All in all, it was a very unpleasant experience, to say the least.

    And there is nothing to say that this saga would not be repeated ... so I have learnt my lesson ... and the moral of the story is:
    Don't ever place an order for anything from overseas over the value of $1000 AU ... (even if you fit the import requirements)
    but especially if you buy from resellers like Apmex, Provident, LPM etc. (as they are not "Refiners" of precious metals to begin with).

    If the shipping and/or credit card fees/insurance fees are included in USD/non-AUD total amount on the shipping slip on your package, it can still be held,
    and you will be asked to provide a receipt of purchase, stating the breakdown, and even if the amount is less than $1000 AU for the Bullion itself,
    you will still need to pay $90 to the Australian Border Force to process the N10 Customs Declaration Form.

    Hope this info helps my fellow buyers and sellers :)
     
    paruwka likes this.
  12. monopolize

    monopolize Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Unless the law has changed there are a lot of misinformation in your post.

    You don't need to be a bullion dealer to import bullion GST free. As a bullion dealer you import bullion tax free. As an individual you import bullion input taxed. Either way there is no GST payable.

    You can import from dealers such as apmex and lpm free of tax, and not just from the actual refiner, as long as it's investment grade bullion.

    As far as I'm aware if you import anything over $1000, you need to complete paperwork with the associated processing fee, regardless of whether tax and duties are payable, which is charged by customs. You have just been lucky you weren't pulled up sooner.

    This is a good information sheet regarding the above.

    https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...FjAIegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2gAkczsh_LfnfjEJYz0oNM
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
    jultorsk and Buffaloknight like this.
  13. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    Haven't they scrapped the $1000 input limit now? with GST on everything.
    ebay, Aliexpress, and a ton of other sellers now automatically charge GST for all import of any value now.
    Bullion should be GST free, but I suspect it may get mistakenly caught now if under $1000?
     
  14. monopolize

    monopolize Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Tax is charged and collected by the overseas seller, so if the overseas seller hasn't charged you GST then it'll go through customs without issue if it's less than $1000. There is no change to how customs deal with parcels under $1000.

    eBay and etc are just blanketly charging GST for everything because it's simpler for them, even if the items should be tax free. Just have to buy from sites that know what they're doing, or sites that don't need to collect GST because they don't exceed the $75,000 threshold.
     
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  15. Mint Silver Coins

    Mint Silver Coins Well-Known Member

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    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________


    Description
    The following description is provided as a guide only. Refer to the relevant legislation for a full description.

    GST Exemption Code for Precious Metals* that you requested for the N10 Importation declaration Form = LPM
    *Precious metals (as defined by s 195-1 of GST Act)


    Section 40-100


    - Precious metals

    Under section 13-5 of the GST Act, you make a taxable importation if you import the goods for home consumption. However, the importation is not a taxable importation to the extent that it is a non-taxable importation.

    An importation of precious metal will be a non-taxable importation if it would have been a supply that was GST-free or input tax if it had been a supply.

    Unless the importations of precious metal meet the requirements below, they will be taxable importations.

    GST-free supply

    Under section 38-385 of the GST Act, the first supply of precious metals after its refining by the refiner, or on behalf of the supplier will only be GST-free if the recipient of the supply is a dealer in precious metals.

    As defined under section 195-1 of the GST Act, precious metal means:

    (a) gold (in an investment form) of at least 99.5% fineness; or

    (b) silver (in an investment form) of at least 99.9% fineness; or

    (c) platinum (in an investment form) of at least 99% fineness; or

    (d) any other substance (in an investment form) specified in the regulations of a particular fineness specified in the regulations of at least 99.5% fineness.

    No regulations have been made to specify any other substance.

    To be precious metal for the purposes of GST, the metal must therefore be gold, silver or platinum.

    · A dealer in precious metal means an entity that satisfies the Commissioner that a principal part of carrying on its enterprise is the regular supply and acquisition of precious metal.

    · A refiner of precious metal means an entity that satisfies the Commissioner that it regularly converts or refines precious metal in carrying on its enterprise.

    The expression 'in an investment form' means the metal must be in a physical form that is capable of being traded on the international market by entities which trade in such a market. Bullion coin is only traded in for the metal value at the prevailing spot price.

    Input taxed supply

    Section 40-100 of the GST Act provides that a supply of precious metal as defined in section 195-1 is input taxed. If a supply is input taxed, then no GST is payable on the supply, and there is no entitlement to an input tax credit for anything acquired or imported to make the supply.

    Money and other things

    Subsection 9-10(4) of the GST Act states that a supply does not include a supply of money unless the money is provided as consideration for a supply that is a supply of money.

    Section 195-1 of the GST Act, defines money to include currency but does not include:

    · a collector's piece, or

    · an investment article, or

    · an item of numismatic interest, or

    · currency the market value of which exceeds its stated value as legal tender in the country of issue.

    Money includes Australian and foreign currency notes and coins and a supply of these things do not constitute a supply where they are supplied as currency in the form of payment to discharge an obligation. It is a financial supply and input taxed as described in Sub-regulation 40-5.09 (3) item 9 of the GST Act.

    Where money is supplied as an item of numismatic interest, collector's piece and investment article, this is a supply of goods and generally is a taxable supply where it satisfies section 9-5 of the GST Act. Where it satisfies the definition of precious metal, it is an input taxed supply.

    Please refer to ATO GST ruling GSTR 2003/10: What is precious metal for the purposes of GST?

    GSTR 2003/10 : what is precious metal for the purposes of GST
     
  16. Mint Silver Coins

    Mint Silver Coins Well-Known Member

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    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    @monopolize … which sites are these, that you FALSELY CLAIM … “they know what they are doing” … name even 1 overseas Precious Metal Dealer website that would risk, not collecting GST (after July 2018) when shipping to Australia – just to save the buyer a few dollars?


    What a crazy MISLEADING STATEMENT … For what conceivable reason would an overseas Precious Metals Dealer not charge a Aust. Buyer GST (unless the Buyer provided proof of an exemption code from the ATO) as the overseas PM Dealer would potentially be in trouble and risk a fine from the Aust Govt. if caught by the A.B.F. for not charging GST at the P.O.S (as it would be evident on the shipping label &/or invoice if requested … eg 10 coins @ $40 per unit = $400 … when the total should read $440 inc. Tax/GST + shipping)


    Or what overseas Bullion Dealer could conceivably “not need to collect GST” … “as they don’t exceed the $75,000 p.a. threshold” ???
    Can you name even one overseas Bullion Dealer that would fit that criteria? (Let alone why would they divulge that sensitive financial info to a buyer?)
    If not, then that is some VERY BAD ADVICE which could cost a buyer a minimum $90 N10 Processing Fee from the A.B.F.


    And unless this "assumed to exist" overseas PM Dealer site (advertised the fact that they turnover a pittance of less than $75,000 AUD p.a. and) had a GST Exemption Code from the ATO and printed the E.C. on every Shipping label destined for Aust Buyers, the package would be confiscated by Customs and then the buyer would have to pay $90 to get it released.


    And even if they did print an exemption code E.C. on the shipping label, the A.B.F. could still hold the package to ask the buyer to get confirmation from the seller that the exemption code was valid = buyer still gets slugged $90 to get the package released, even if package was worth less than $1000 AUD ... why would a buyer want to risk a $90 Fee, not to pay GST on an import less than $1000 AUD?


    BTW I make more than $75,000 AUD p.a. and I am a very small fry Bullion Dealer with no website, that sells solely to Aussies on Ebay Aust … and by all accounts companies like Apmex and LPM would make a darn-sight more than $75,000 AUD p.a. (in the message above you have FALSELY CLAIMED that Apmex and LPM do not charge GST, when in fact they do charge GST … as they are obliged by Aust. law to do so ... as all International PM Dealers were required to from July 2018 onward)


    And Ebay DO NOT “blanketly” CHARGE GST for “everything” (BTW blanketly is not a word)


    1. Ebay does not charge Aust. Buyers GST on items purchased from Aust. Sellers … as Ebay Aust. presumes Aust. Sellers have paid GST when they purchased the item that they are selling and that if it is being sold within Australia to an Aust. Buyer than the price is GST INCLUSIVE eg. if a seller sells a Coin on Ebay for $110 the seller would owe the ATO $11 GST on the sale … UNLESS … THE BUYER IS GST REGISTERED then REVERSE CHARGE APPLIES*

    * please see important information about R.C. below: (as not many people are even aware of this law) and one day the ATO could come knocking at the Buyer's door with their hand out ... if the Buyer is registered for GST.


    2. Ebay only charges the Aust. Seller GST on Services provided to the Seller eg. $1 listing and final value fees will be charged to the seller as $1.10 and IF the seller has provided their ABN to Ebay then the seller can reclaim the 10% GST from the ATO by submitting the monthly Ebay invoice (as a record of GST paid to Ebay for Services provided) to the ATO … this is made clear in the Ebay terms and conditions for Sellers.


    3. Ebay only collects GST on behalf of the ATO ... which is charged to the Aussie buyer at the P.O.S. checkout only on International Sales (imports) "that are not GST exempt" … eg. medical equipment like Nebulizers (exemption code: B130) or T.E.N.S. machine (Exemption Code: B141) which are both GST exempt. There are of course many other exemptions on imports, but no E.C. would apply to precious metals sold on Ebay.
     
  17. Mint Silver Coins

    Mint Silver Coins Well-Known Member

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    REVERSE CHARGE IN THE PRECIOUS METALS INDUSTRY

    https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST...verse-charge-in-the-valuable-metals-industry/


    The A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax) Act 1999 (GST Act) as it relates to precious metals has been amended with effect from 1 April 2017.

    From 1 April 2017, a mandatory reverse charge applies on business-to-business transactions of valuable metals. This applies to sales between GST-registered suppliers and GST-registered purchasers to all taxable supplies of gold, silver or platinum.

    A reverse charge transaction makes the purchaser responsible for remitting GST, rather than the supplier. It makes it easier and faster for businesses in the valuable metal industry to meet their GST and reporting obligations.

    To support introduction of the new law, interim arrangements applied from 1 January 2017 to 31 March 2017. These arrangements allowed sellers and purchasers to enter into a voluntary reverse charge (VRC) arrangement. During this time, GST-registered businesses (sellers and purchasers) that entered into a VRC arrangement had to submit a worksheet to report and reconcile these transactions, in addition to lodging their business activity statement (BAS).

    The reverse charge worksheet does not apply for tax periods after 1 April 2017.

    Note: The reverse charge is not applicable when you are buying and selling to customers who are not carrying on a business (individual – non-business entities). In these situations, the normal GST rules apply.

    Find out about:

    See also:

    What the reverse charge means

    The reverse charge means that from 1 April 2017, if you:

    • buy valuable metals from another business, you
      • no longer need to pay GST to the seller
      • are responsible for reporting and paying the GST amount when you lodge your BAS.

    • sell valuable metals to another business, you
      • must clearly state that the sale is a reverse-charged sale on the tax invoice you provide. This also applies if you are a buyer and you use recipient-created tax invoices
      • are responsible for reporting the sale when you lodge your BAS.

    The reverse charge makes the purchaser of the supply rather than the supplier responsible for remitting GST. This aligns the GST payable on the supply with the purchaser's credit entitlement. The GST payable and credit entitlement will both be netted off on the purchaser's BAS.

    A reverse charge provides a level playing field for businesses and makes it easier for businesses in the valuable metals industry to meet their GST obligations.

    Example: Applying a reverse charge transaction

    On 1 April 2017, GoldX Refining buys scrap gold (a taxable supply item) from Scrap Metals Pty Ltd for $1,100 (GST inclusive). Both entities are registered for GST, and complete their activity statement using the calculation worksheet method (GST inclusive amounts). The transaction is business-to-business.

    Under the reverse charge mechanism, the seller and buyer are now required to:

    Seller

    • Scrap Metals Pty Ltd is required to treat the scrap gold sale with GoldX Refining as a reverse charge in the corresponding BAS reporting period for this transaction. In this example, the reverse charged GST amount is $100 and the taxable supply amount is $1,100:
      • no GST is reported by Scrap Metals Pty Ltd at Label 1A for this transaction
      • Scrap Metals Pty Ltd is still required to report the taxable supply amount of $1,100 at Label G1
      • the tax invoice or recipient created tax invoice needs to state the wording reverse charged against the related supply item.

    Buyer

    • In the corresponding BAS reporting period for this transaction, GoldX Refining is required to:
      • pay the related supplies amount of $1,000 to Scrap Metals Pty Ltd and the reverse charged GST amount of $100 (10%) to the ATO
      • report the reverse charged GST amount of $100 at Label 1A
      • report input tax credits using G11 and/or Label 1B in the usual way. In this example, if GoldX Refining is entitled to an input tax credit for this purchase, it would report the transaction at Label G11 ($1,100) and/or Label 1B ($100).

    End of example: Last modified: 02 Aug 2018
     
  18. Mint Silver Coins

    Mint Silver Coins Well-Known Member

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    @monopolize ... as you may be able to tell from my plethora of rebuttals ... that I was some-what offended that you claimed in a "Public Forum" that Mint Silver Coins is spreading ALOT of MIS-INFORMATION ... when in fact ... YOU WERE WRONG :p

    As a scorned Libra Lady, I am compelled to stand on my soapbox and defend the allegations that you made against me, suggesting that I provided wrong information (and as 85% of Stacker's are men ... real statistics BTW) I am going to be presumptuous and presume that you are a man ... and if so ... my hubby would say to you ... "thank your lucky stars that she's not your wife or you'd never hear the end of it" ... LOL o_O

    So armed with the actual laws and the facts of the matter to set the record straight and correct the mis-information that you have written - lest any Silver Stacker's are led astray by it ... always remember due diligence, and confirm everything you read (even my words) do not take any information for granted unless it ends in .gov.au



    As of July, 2018 Australian GST Ruling Laws were amended to state that "GST is Payable" at the P.O.S for Imported Goods "UNDER $1000 AUD" (with the exception of certain exemptions of course) ... this was to even out the playing field for Aussie bricks and mortar shopfronts, who were losing money to overseas websites.

    Prior to July, 2018 ... I was correct in claiming that only Certified Bullion Dealers (plus Banks, Commodity Brokers and Stockbrokers) with a (GSTR Exemption Code) were exempt from paying GST on Imported Bullion* OVER $1000 AUD at P.O.S.

    And After July, 2018 ... I am also correct in claiming that only Certified Bullion Dealers plus Banks, Commodity Brokers and Stockbrokers (with a GSTR Exemption Code) are exempt from paying GST on Imported Bullion* UNDER $1000 AUD and OVER $1000 AUD at P.O.S.

    but only IF Bullion* Bars/Coins/Rounds are stamped with minimum 999 purity and weight and were purchased at a price based on spot-price from a Certified Refiner of precious metals, eg. from a Mint ... (Bullion* = not including other non-bullion forms of Precious Metals eg. Jewelry, Numismatics, Granules etc.)


    I am opposed to disclaimer statements like: … “as far as I'm aware” … or the addendum of “unless the law has been changed” … as well yes, in-fact unbeknownst to @monopolize, the law had been changed :p ... with the change pertaining to the GST Ruling Laws in relation to Imported Goods UNDER $1000 AUD (which was in-fact postponed in July 2017 for 1 year and was then effected into law in July 2018).


    The following "FACTS" can be confirmed at the link below:

    https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/busi...ods/importing-goods/importing-by-post-or-mail


    Goods with a value of AUD1000 or less

    Goods that arrive by mail and have a declared or assessed value of AUD1000 or less will not incur duty, taxes or charges at the border, unless they are alcoholic beverages, tobacco, or tobacco products.

    However, from 1 July 2018, the Goods and Services Tax (GST) may apply to goods when imported from overseas by consumers in Australia (excluding tobacco, tobacco products or alcoholic beverages) GST will be charged at the Point Of Sale and not at the border.

    For more information, see GST on low value imported goods

    Once cleared by us and Agriculture, these goods will be delivered to you by Australia Post.

    Note: When goods are assessed for value, we may request evidence from you as to the value of the goods. In this case, you will receive a letter requesting you to provide evidence to substantiate the declared value.

    If the declared value of your goods is accepted by us, your goods will be delivered to you by Australia Post.

    If the declared value of your goods is not accepted by us, you will be sent a First Notice by Australia Post.


    Goods valued over AUD1000

    If the goods you have imported have a declared or assessed value of over AUD1000, you will be sent a First Notice by Australia Post advising that you will need to lodge an Import Declaration with us for the goods.

    The Import Declaration will be assessed for duty and taxes and an import processing charge will also be applied. After you have lodged your Import Declaration, we will advise you of the amount you need to pay before your goods can be delivered.

    Goods with a value over AUD1000 are unable to be to be delivered by Australia Post unless an Import Declaration is made and any duty, taxes and charges owing are paid in full


    So I was correct in warning that … (even if $0 - No duty, No taxes and No charges are owing on imports over $1,000 AUD) - buyers will still be charged $90* for Customs to process the N10 Import Declaration Form on all imports over $1000 AUD) $90* Fee - current as at October 2018 for Precious Metals imports over $1000 AUD - but this amount may increase in the future.

    The N10 Fee applies to all parcels over $1,000 AUD – whether or not, GST was paid at the Point of Sale ... and whether or not, the importer has GSTR Exemption Code status ... This is what I meant by extortion, as the next time it occurs I will have to pay another $90 to RE-Prove my E.C. status all over again.

    Please note: the Shipping cost is not counted against the $1000 AUD threshold, but this will be established by Customs with the provision of the invoice from you ... and even if you fill out the N10 form and prove the invoice amount was $900 + $90 GST + $11 Shipping = $1,001 ... you will still pay dearly for proving it was not actually over $1000 ... which is why I said I had learned my lesson never to go "too close" to the $1000 mark ever again.

    .._.._..

    Dear Monopolize … I think it was and is important for people to know this ... as many are unaware that if an import order is even $1 over the $1000 AUD threshold they will be stung with this ($90*) fee regardless ... and I was aiming for a humorous spin to my story of the "Customs Extortion Fee Tale" to demonstrate this fact.

    BTW I wrote the other harsher rebuttals while I was angst-y and as this is my last rebuttal, I have run out of steam and angst LOL :oops:
    Anyway my dear, if you are willing to apologize/admit you were wrong (or not), I am willing to forgive you ... Libra ladies don't tend to stay mad for long ...
    of which my hubby would say is the secret to his enduring a 20 year marriage to a pedantic perfectionist ... LOL ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2018
    KangaBanga likes this.

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