Hosane Auction Results BS????

Discussion in 'Modern Chinese Coins & Medallions' started by silverfever, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. silverfever

    silverfever New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
  2. silverfever

    silverfever New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Complete Historical Figures Set sells for US$5227.00
     
  3. серебро

    серебро New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Sydney
    1993 CHINA S5Y INVENTION&DISCOVERY SET, NGC PF69/68UC

    Item number: 200771152613

    $1688.88


    INVENTION OF THE UMBRELLA - NGC PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    TERRACOTTA ARMY - NGC PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    DEFINITION OF ZERO - NGC PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO
    INVENTION OF THE STIRRUP - NGC PF 68 ULTRA CAMEO
    CHIN-YIN YANG - NGC PF 68 ULTRA CAMEO
     
  4. silverfever

    silverfever New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
  5. серебро

    серебро New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Sydney
    I saw back in March raw coins on a site I can not remember which one selling for $50 to $90 a coin. They looked like they were in good condition
     
  6. silverfever

    silverfever New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Than you could easily get a set around $400-$500.00


    Another questionable price

    1986 Historical figures set sells for Us $1587.00!!!!!!!
    http://www.hosane.com/productdetail.asp?auctionid=G12061&pieceCode=1680&Page=12

    I bought a complete PF 69 NGC graded set for $450.00
     
  7. Griffon

    Griffon New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Highett
    auctions in mainland China is well known as a form for money laundry or bribe.

    for example, person A wants to give a bribe to a corrupted gov official, instead of handling over cash which may cause problems, he would ask the officer to put any somehow value items (coins, china bowl, jade etc. etc.) in public auction and bid to the money that the officer is after. If you see realised prices that dealers are not even charging, you know what's happening behind the door.

    but bear in mind that Chinese gov is said to inject a further 4 billion RMB into capital markets so even just a small portion of it flows into coin market will see the prices doubled or maybe tripled.
     
  8. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    Being at the auction in person makes a difference. Especially when you can inspect the coins.

    I was at this auction, and know some of the people that organized it.

    I trust them enough that I'm confident that i will be selling some of my collection there next round.
     
  9. Griffon

    Griffon New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Highett
    did not check all lots but one typical example of a possible bribe/money laundry is lot#1513, an extermely common set easily available anywhere for USD$6 (or RMB 35) sold RMB 13800 includes BP
     
  10. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    I don't agree with the bribe idea being passed around in this thread:
    1. There are easier ways to pass money to someone.
    2. Neither party to a bribe wants a paper trail, and that is what is generated at an auction.
    3. An auction is an incredibly expensive way to pass a bribe, hosane gets 10% from the seller and 15% from the buyer... Incredibly expensive way of slipping cash to someone.
     
  11. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    I was watching this item.

    I don't think it's a bribe at all.

    It sold for 12,000RMB (approx. $2000AUD).

    If it were a bribe:
    The person paying the bribe pays Hosane: 1,800RMB
    The person receiving the bribe pays Hosane: 1,200RMB
    The person receiving the bribe only receives 10,800RMB

    The only real winner in this "bribe" would be Hosane, who receives 3,000RMB

    All this trouble for just $1714AUD (10,800RMB)? Easier to slip someone a wad of cash in a handshake, or under the table during dinner.

    This is like someone saying, "Ebay in the West is well known as a form for money laundry or bribe."
     
  12. Griffon

    Griffon New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Highett
    Hi Chris,

    agreed that it's off the topic as it's a panda forum

    however, it's somehow relevant to all MCC investor/collector to understand the reason behind massive price discrepancy evidenced in auctions. image someone who is unfamiliar about this paid top dollars for some common coins because of reference to auction house realised price but stunt later only to find out that the "bargain" only worths a friction of the purchase price at the time of resell? It's a crime in China for gov official unable to explaine the source of income (i.e. officers receiving large amount of money without a valid reason is a crime) but Discipllinary Committee of the Chinese Communist Party will regard auction income as a legitimite income thus both parties involved in auction, even with paper trail, will be trouble free.

    I am not saying that all lots in Hosane auction are bribes or trying to bring down MCC collectors passion, i am just trying to offer an alternative view into understanding auction results and caution everyone to do the research before giving away their hard earned money.

    if you do not like it or feel offended in any ways, feel free to delete the post

    cheers

    Roy
     
  13. Pandacollector

    Pandacollector Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    The Golden State
  14. Lightsview

    Lightsview Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Adelaide

    Hi Peter, you mentioned in CCF that Pricepedia will not report some prices from this auction. Any reason for that?
     
  15. Pandacollector

    Pandacollector Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    412
    Likes Received:
    58
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    The Golden State

    The CCF comment was a response to a specific price that someone else posted. I don't believe that number is a good gauge to what these coins usually go for. If this was an actively traded coin(s) for which there were 10 other results that would be a different story; it would be easy to see what the average is, and how this sale relates to others. Because so few of these coins change hands, though, a single extraordinary auction price can have more influence than it deserves to have. So I use my own judgement about whether to report it, or not. This doesn't come up often, fortunately.

    Best wishes,
    Peter Anthony
    China Pricepedia
    http://www.pandacollector.coma
     
  16. yennus

    yennus Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2010
    Messages:
    4,837
    Likes Received:
    101
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Shanghai:Sydney
    Thanks Griffon for your courtesy, politeness, and your thoughts.

    I just don't agree that the bribe hypothesis is the best explanation behind the high prices for some coins.

    In my opinion, it is more likely the case, that we don't fully understand what is desirable in the Chinese Modern Coin scene.

    For example, many Chinese wouldn't understand why a specific Australian 1930 penny would go for $100,000AUD, while most other pennies go for pennies. :)

    Similarly, receiving bribes through auctions wouldn't be very smart.. because that would incur massive Capital Gains Tax plus a lot of red flags (plus a whole lot of commissions to Hosane).
     
  17. Lim

    Lim New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Singapore
    A crazy wacko and 2 lucky chap (the seller and the auction house)
     
  18. Lightsview

    Lightsview Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Adelaide

    Thanks Peter for that clarification.
     
  19. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2011
    Messages:
    9,738
    Likes Received:
    2,447
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pulau Alor ;)
    more like a father in law, (coins lover) want to 'tekan' the son in law

    or a brother is law (2B), who is a member here is trying to make life difficult :lol: for the new comer in the family ?
     
  20. jc888888888

    jc888888888 New Member Silver Stacker

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    usa
    lets talk :) I love those prices , I have no problem sending coins to you to auction for me and I will gladly pay commission to you my friend ,those prices are wow:),I have RMB account on mainland:)
     

Share This Page