Hey remember Platinum? Its no one hit wonder... underowned, oversold

Discussion in 'Platinum' started by SilverSanchez, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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  2. conork

    conork New Member

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    I'd be interested in listening but the link doesn't work?
     
  3. 940palmtx

    940palmtx New Member

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    I purchased a little Pt when it dipped a couple weeks ago. I'm sure I'll buy a little more at some point, but not before I add more Ag & Au
     
  4. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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  5. 940palmtx

    940palmtx New Member

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  6. finicky

    finicky Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Is Platinum really rarer than Gold? This wikipedia article rates it as similar rarity when considering solely the abundance in the earths crust and in the sea.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precious_metal
    I always used to to believe that Platinum occurs much more rarely than Gold.

    That's a raw statistic from one source that doesn't address other critical factors. Some that come to mind that might be relevant are: Concentration differences of the metals into mineable deposits. The depths and locations of these deposits. Concurrence with other valuable metals. Differences in recoverability.
    Also, with Platinum, there is the same consumption difference and above ground depletion argument that is often mentioned when comparing silver to gold. Platinum is consumed in a way that Gold is not
     
  7. finicky

    finicky Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    This 2010 article says that Platinum is produced in much lower amounts than Gold:

    "Platinum and gold, how much of a relationship do these metals really have? Gold has been the talk of the town lately, a growingly-popular safe haven in these wild economic times. But platinum, one hardly hears of this metal. Guys like me who have wives with high-end jewelry taste certainly know about platinum, and car buffs are familiar with its use in catalytic converters. But with the average investor knowing very little about this metal, is it even on the same playing field as gold?

    Platinum and gold are definitely on the same playing field in that they are both commodities in the midst of powerful secular bull markets undergirded by strong long-term fundamentals. Platinum's bull gathered momentum around the same time as gold's, in 2001, and had seen a 448% gain to its 2008 high.

    Categorically these metals have a lot in common in that they are both very precious. In fact, measured by price platinum is more precious than gold. With it getting as high as $2273 in March 2008, and currently at about the $1500 level, it definitely costs more to buy an ounce. And with platinum's annual production volume at about 6.0m ounces, about 8% that of gold's, it is more rare."

    No point me trying to attribute with the url - it's forbidden by the server. So the articles name if you want to search it and read further is:

    Understanding the Platinum/Gold Ratio
    BY SCOTT WRIGHT | JULY 30, 2010
     
  8. Dogmatix

    Dogmatix Active Member

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    My not so informed opinion(s) on Platinum vs Gold:

    - Gold is a monetary metal, platinum is not.
    - In times of crisis, like recently, the fact that silver and platinum got smashed down hard compared to gold's relatively lower smashing-down should tell you a bit about how strong the hands that hold platinum are
    - There are other metals or elements that are rarer than gold or platinum. Is demand driven by scarcity or something else?
    - Platinum does not have a very distinct colour, making forgeries/fakes a bit problematic. Not sure about the whole mass thing, we know Tunsten and Gold are substitutable, so what is substitutable for platinum?

    I like Platinum for jewelry. It's a pretty cool metal. It's just not gold...

    Also, comparing historic 'prices' (and essentially ratios) between PM's of different purpose is virtually pointless IMO.
     
  9. Aureus

    Aureus Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Forgive the overly simplistic view but no one cares about Platinum, so neither do I.

    If I had enough fiat to buy it i'd rather invest in Silver and gold.
     
  10. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    First point is not true - platinum (not gold or silver) was minted in russian coins until recently
    Second point - the platinum market is smaller than even the silver - when it moves it MOVES

    ther other two points are opinion

    my ratio for investment is 40% Silver, 40% Gold, 20% Platinum
     
  11. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    Did you get into Silver when no-one cared? That reasoning doesnt make bigest money
     
  12. Aureus

    Aureus Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Sure I did, but at the time I saw it was going to make me money.
    I'm not convinced Platinum is ready to do anything, in 2008 it reached a peak of $2,252 per oz and then fell to $774 that same year. It may seem cheap right now but remember it is an industrial metal, in slow economical times Gold is always king.

    Just my opinion but given spare cash I wouldn't bother with platinum, at least not yet.
     
  13. Ernster

    Ernster New Member

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    I think Gold and Silver are all the metals you need. How on earth can one expect Platinum to outperform Silver? I dont see it happening.
     
  14. Dogmatix

    Dogmatix Active Member

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    All my points are opinion :)

    I don't mind if platinum goes crazy bullish, hopefully it will distract the speculators from the real PM's.

    The day that central banks start stocking up on, and trading in platinum as a norm, will be the day I consider platinum to be a worthwhile investment.
     
  15. Ronnie 666

    Ronnie 666 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Heard the same thing about silver 10 years ago. We will see won't we. My bet is on both but don't be surprised if Pt wins.
     
  16. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    Set-up: Platinum - smaller market than silver, tight supply 80% world supply out of South Africa

    Senario: No-one can get physical silver/gold because of mania, or ANYTHING happens to South African supply in Platinum

    Effect: Plantinum wipes the floor with Gold/Silver and joins it classic ratio compared to gold

    Silver is LESS of a precious metal than Platinum is - Platinum has industrial uses but only recently since catalitic converters in cars - prior to that Platinum is more was worth more than Gold adding to the argument that gold is overbought (or Platinum is way way under valued, which is the path im taking here)

    Palladium has never been used for money
     
  17. finicky

    finicky Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Well how about Rhodium - who cares about that? Yet until the GFC crash it had a dramatic bull market that would have been stronger than gold's. Trouble is, Australian investors tend to be limited to what suppliers conveniently deem is worth offering. According to the wikipedia table, Rhodium is 5x rarer than Platinum in the earth's crust and seas, and according to kitco, just 25 tons of rhodium are mined every year.
    For the investor here, might be a liquidity problem when wanting to sell though.

    http://www.kitco.com/rhodium/

    [​IMG]
     
  18. SilverSanchez

    SilverSanchez Active Member

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    You are talking about something not relevant to the issue - Ozmium is rarer that all of em only a couple of hundred kg mined each year! its not rarity that is the issue, we are talking prescious metals Silver, Gold, Platinum - and the historic ratios - and platinum is way out of whack - so platinum is about to soar or before that happens Gold is going to correct further (and drag silver somewhat).
     
  19. finicky

    finicky Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Sure it's relevant; it's relevant because it addresses by analogy an argument made by Roman that Pt isn't interesting because noone cares about it. Noone cares about Pt, noone cares about Rhodium, yet there is the evidence that they have both been in bull markets.

    It's relevant because the issue as to whether Pt is set to rise can be broadened to other unpopular precious metals.

    Also one of the arguments for Pt outperforming gold in the future is its rarity from a number of angles, including rarity of natural occurrence. Well as I said, Rh is 5x rarer than Pt as a natural occurrence going by wikipedia's table. I would definitely buy an 0z of Rhodium before an oz of Platinum if the prices were similar.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Aureus

    Aureus Active Member Silver Stacker

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    Silver is the only industrial metal for me, if you want to spend allot of money on something that can tank or explode upwards go for it - not here to tell you otherwise.

    Just be aware that when no one wants it the price can fall like a stone. How confident are you that we won't see another 2008?
     

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