Help buying Australian Sovereigns

Discussion in 'Sovereigns' started by Dogmatix, Dec 14, 2016.

  1. milled

    milled Active Member

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    never yet found sovs at spot from a dealer. It wouldn't be rational as a dealer. There are too many expenses to make that a fair trade.

    however, here I have bought quite a bit. It's going back years now. Whether gold or silver, certain items come and go in popularity. Sovs weren't that sought after a few years back. For now I guess sovs are in hot demand, even $200 coins. These were also on the nose, even mocked. Now, they sell quickly. Fractional perth mint stuff could also be had at spot a year or two ago here and this was highly overpriced going back 9 years ago.

    back then I bought a Dreaming Australia series or called something like it. It was 5 x 1/10 oz coins. It was touted here as a good long termer. The premium was so high that I think I'm in profit if sold at spot only on this last run from 1750 to 2200-2300. That's nine years! Learn the lesson. Avoid fractionals unless close to spot or numi. Walk or run away.

    rewind 8 years ago and silver 50s also carried a big premium. A few years ago they were rock bottom and sellers sometimes went without a buyer. They were less than 2009 prices at the bottom. Now they should be achievable at spot if bought in bulk. Again, not at a dealer. For the same reasons as above.

    the situation for buying at markets on the weekend is the worst I've seen, typically higher than dealers. I saw one seller a few weeks back trying his hand at 49 dollars for ASEs. I'm seeing older folks selling their stack with a different selling style. They seem to be happy enough to eke out sales over years, with sky high prices allowing this kind of lifestyle. It is more like a hobby, something to do for them than a key source of income. A waste of time as a buyer, but they are often helpful in telling you about certain pieces on show.

    your friend is the buyback price chart at major dealers, ironed flat at the spot price, no matter what you bought it for. This is a good reminder to be cautious and buy where possible close or at spot, unless clearly a numi or you are punting on whatever it is to be sought after in the future by collectors or expect a fad.
     
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  2. Aurora et luna

    Aurora et luna Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    We are in a gold bull market and fractionals is what is in demand right now because it's more affordable for the average stacker.
    It's scarcity is forcing up premiums.
    When we're in a gold bear market, I am sure we'll be able to pick up gold fractionals at spot.
    I am just giving stackers here an idea of the going rate for sovereigns on Friday.
    If there is buyers resistance next week, premiums will drop.
    If there is more demand, I am sure the dealers will make hay while the going is good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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  3. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    If you are located in Melbourne, there are a number of gold jewellers on Sydney Road. They make their bread and butter on jewellery, but sometimes buy back coins and buttons from estates. I have had some luck finding sovereigns and buttons at close to spot as they have sat at the dealer for years and collected dust.

    Just be aware that most of them are morally corrupt bastards that don't blink an eye at dirty goods and be sure you know what you're buying. Just because it XRFs correctly doesn't mean its a genuine sov and not a jewellers copy. Remember that you're looking for bullion, not a graded coin, and make sure you pay as such.
     
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  4. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Absolutely agree, recently managed to find the same set at spot. Guess what it sold for when i wanted to let it go? Pretty much spot. Numismatic gold is a gamble that pays off worse than poker.
     
  5. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I think this pretty much explains it. $2200, spot gold in a sov is $518. Add in your standard premiums and you're looking at a fairly large piece of your average person's take home pay.

    Then there is the unfolding future where as public awareness rises, and gold heads to $3k, nervous savers will find $750 for a bullion sov a bargain.

    Milled mentions $200 coins, which I've always considered the absolutely perfect unit to stack, except for some reason I cannot fathom, they sell very slowly.

    At close to a third of an ounce, probably zero counterfeiting, and great "collection" series available, (meaning, like sovs, close to unseizable if any government decree looks like previous gold grabs ie. "collections" exempt), the $200 is a bargain. Even then, at $650 gold, currently in each coin, add a minor premium of 5% and at $680, the sales are at a glacial pace. (Gold at 3k puts these at around $900 btw)

    So awhile back, I noted the sov "replica" issues, and the wide ranging premium rates for good and better quality coins, and the apparent difficulty selling the $200 coins, and switched my allegiance to .9999 x 1/10, 1/4 and 1/2 ounce PM coins.

    Reasons:
    Large "Collection" sequences
    Zero, or close, counterfeits.
    Sellable to a range of budgets. (the quarter ounce is at the sweet spot between sov price and $200 price - $550 @AU2200)

    The only negative for the four nines approach is that it's passionless - close to boring. Something i could never say about a 1914s sovereign for instance, or even the "Tall Ships" $200s. :)
     
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  6. silverdude

    silverdude New Member

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    I know I am late to the party, but I have a few Australian sovereigns (at various premiums) available. The list includes
    1870S (Sydney Mint "Australia"), 1872S (shield), 1873S, 1878M, 1880M, 1881M, 1884S, 1893S, 2x 1901P, 1918P. I invite you to PM me if you are interested. I am based in Canberra.
     
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  7. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What's a fair premium on half sovs?
     
  8. Aurora et luna

    Aurora et luna Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    ∆∆∆∆
    Minimum 5 % for Vg grades
     
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  9. tigger2

    tigger2 Member

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    I've been buying and as of monday still buying sovs at average spot. If they were graded then most would range fine (=good for any other coin). I'm sure there are rare sovereigns worth $1000s but in my opinion they are all bullion and should not trade above 1/4oz bullion price.
     
  10. Aurora et luna

    Aurora et luna Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Bought a small parcel of better grade Sovereigns about a month ago.
    A few Young Victoria and Old Victoria in Vf condition and some George in EF condition.
    The seller wanted 10% above spot and because I bought the lot managed to pick it up for 9%
    I thought it was a good deal!
    Any Sovereign that is selling close to spot from my suppliers don't have a lot of eye appeal. Mostly culls that grade Vg or worse.
    Be careful when buying culls; they are seriously underweight due to extensive wear however a lot of dealers priced them at actual gold weight of 7.32 grams.
    Even at spot, they aren't much of a bargain.
     
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  11. Aurora et luna

    Aurora et luna Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Currently the best value fractional gold coin is in my opinion the $200 Koala.
    Have no problems picking them up for 2 - 3% above spot.
     
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  12. tigger2

    tigger2 Member

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    I agree $200 is probably the best in the 0.25oz region. Only caveat is early ones tend to weigh 9.96-9.97 and specific gravity testing suggests they are a bit light on substance, 20-21 carat.

    Sovereigns seem to be everywhere at the moment. Coin shops (including gst) are doing $575 to $600 all day long on fine grades and that suggests to me they have more of these than they know what to do with!
     
  13. silverdude

    silverdude New Member

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    Not sure if allowed, admins can delete if inappropriate, but this is an overview of some sovereigns (Australian and UK) and 20 Francs I have for sale. Quality ranges from F/VF to aUNC. PM me if you are interested. I am in Canberra and prefer F2F.

    http://imgur.com/a/jeugkDh

    Silverdude
     
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  14. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Tigger2
    I don't know who you are but i can saw that you are wrong on several counts, $200 are 22ct, not 20, not 21 but 22ct
    Not all sovereigns are bullion, you seem to have a mentality that everything is just bullion and nothing more. This is incredibly simple minded and reflective of your inexperience.
    Yes dealers have lots of sovereigns, they have been trading them internationally for hundreds of years and they are in my opinion the most recognizable coin in the world. If i got 1000 sovereigns tomorrow i could sell them in 24hrs.
    This liquidity doesn't mean that there is an oversupply, just that they make a great blue chip (in coin world) investment
     
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  15. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Nice stack you have there bud!
     
  16. tigger2

    tigger2 Member

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    Others here have also recorded $200 underweight. Just with simple SG test when I calibrate with fine gold and silver and adjust for room temp a 1983 koala comes in a gram light at 16.5.

    No doubt inexperienced, but all sovereigns including proof are pure bullion to me. I have my fathers 50yrs collecting experience plus mine being an economist for an art auctioneer and I simply don't understand investing in numismatics.

    On sovereigns, I note that when I google a coin shop, I very quickly find Wynyard Coins selling bullion grade sovereigns for $563 including shipping, which is exactly spot plus 10% GST.
     
  17. 66rounds

    66rounds Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    An art auctioneer that doesn't understand numismatics? Wtf?
     
  18. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    your fathers experience?
    "economist for an art auctioneer "?
    lol excuse my lack of experience in the art world but wtf is that and how does your daddies collecting time translate into real world numismatic skills?
    I test almost every $200 that passes through my hand with either a PMV or XRF. never have these methods recorded an issue with purity. a difference of 1 or 2 cts is a huge amount that would cause massive issues to the coin minting house, in this case that would be Royal Australia Mint who have one of the finest reputations in the world for coin quality control.
    so when a recently established account claims to have years of experience and make unsubstantiated and outlandish claims im going to call bullshit
    especially when they double down claiming to be experience in an obvious effort to give credence to their claims
     
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  19. serial

    serial Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    66round he didn't claim to be an art auctioneer, but an "economist"
    but what would I know lol
     
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  20. silverdude

    silverdude New Member

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    Thanks. I like them too, but want to focus more on German and Scandinavian coins.
     
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