Guardian Vaults No Longer Accept Cash Payments

Discussion in 'General Precious Metals Discussion' started by willrocks, Dec 17, 2019.

  1. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    Provided you sell them that is. If you hold them, why would you declare them? I mean, with that logic you would still have to declare them while they're here. Also, if you were to sell them here, you would have to declare them anyway.
    So assuming you were going to sell them and you made a capital gain, you would have to declare those to the ATO anyway, which will mean the government will know you have an interest in PMs. So whether the government knows you have PMs by declaring it in your tax return or they know because you made an electronic transfer to Guardian and it left a paper trail, they end up knowing in the end (although it might not be in full picture).
    Also, who says that people only store PMs in guardian? they could possibly store stuff that are not PMs (secret documents etc). So if you made an electronic transfer to Guardian and they report it, it just says to them that you have a storage account with Guardian. Having a storage account with Guardian shouldn't mean that you own PMs.
    So once again, how big of a problem is this in its current form where changes will be made in April 2020?
     
  2. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    Average 5k seems quite generous or I must be with the wrong crowd :(
     
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  3. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I'm not sure what you mean.

    ATO requires Australian tax residents to disclose any overseas assets worth $50k+.
     
  4. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    It is quite good, but it's still not a lot of money in the scheme of other investments like property that Australians are mad about.
    People know they earn practically nothing on their cash saving, and they often pay bank fees. So having negative rates at say 1-2% or something hardly going to raise an eyebrow unfortunately, and that's what those behind this are counting on.
     
  5. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    Now that I did not know, so how would the ATO know if you hold over 50k in PMs overseas and don't declare it?
     
  6. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They probably wouldn't know immediately. But if you ever transferred the sale proceeds back to Australia, you may be questioned.

    There's also CRS (Common Reporting Standard). So if you have an overseas bank account, all your records are sent back to the Australian authorities. So even if you don't transfer the sale proceeds back, you still may get caught.
     
  7. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    I see. The thing is, not everyone using Guardian would be storing PMs. Unless the contents have to be revealed, the government wouldn't know whether said person owns PMs. And if they get desperate enough, they might ask what is inside the boxes.
    If it comes to that point though, would you still want to stay in the country?
     
  8. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    IMO the gov will eventually require a statement SD contents (probably within the next decade). Probably under the guise of AML or KYC ... etc.

    No. But if most other countries have similar policies, where would you go?
     
  9. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    Well, how about some of the countries listed below? I'm just thinking of these at the top of my head without any background knowledge of the countries, but do you think the following countries would be doing what Australia is doing? At the end of the day, I do think Guardian is pressured by the government to comply with some additional AML provisions.
    I'm not saying that the following countries would be ideal but if privacy is such an issue and you need to move your assets out of the country, would any of these countries make it better?
    • Singapore
    • New Zealand (possible they might change later on)
    • Switzerland
    • Luxembourg
    • United Arab Emirates
    • Cayman Islands
     
  10. SilverDJ

    SilverDJ Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. I think they most likely just looked at the number of people using cash and determined it wasn't worth the hassle any more.
     
  11. alor

    alor Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    they are not in the business of collecting cash payments, which may be subjected to theft
    so they outsource the collections of annual fees to the bank via timely deduction and money balances
    so this lead to people having to set up giro bank deduction to rent a box, in turn certain citizen can not open a bank account
     
  12. ddevil

    ddevil Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I believe Guardian has changed their stance on cash because of the AUSTRAC reporting requirements involved around it
     
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  13. Silverman99

    Silverman99 Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Send your stack my way I’ll take good care of it
     
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  14. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Like I said before. If you remain an Australian resident for tax purposes, you would then be obligated to declare your overseas assets if they total $50K+.

    Also, there's the logistics of moving it overseas. I can't imagine how much that would cost for decent amounts of Silver.
     
  15. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    Yes, this was to address your question on where you would store PMs should the situation be so bad in Australia that you would seriously have to consider looking elsewhere.
    Though this would be something of last resort.
     
  16. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    But going back to subject, if anyone has an account with Guardian, what would you guys do? Will you still use their services despite it leaving a possible trail or would this change be enough for you to look elsewhere? And if so, where would you go as there aren't many players in Australia that provide a service on par with Guardian?
     
  17. ddevil

    ddevil Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I wouldn't go with Fortis!
     
  18. fishduck

    fishduck Active Member

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    How come? There aren't many players in Australia. Where would you go since Guardian won't be taking cash?
     
  19. Oddjob

    Oddjob Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In Sydney Custodian Vaults still accept cheques and deposits to their bank a/c. Not sure about cash over the office desk.

    Make the cheque payable to cash and hand over as you would cash, or just make the deposit with cash at the bank with only your Custodian Vaults reference number on the depo slip.

    Maybe worth a call or email to them.
     

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