You continue to amaze me with your complete lack of economic understanding, and the fact that you are just a troll.
Peter has to be a bot. A union bot. A socialist bot. An online bot droid. The way he Types his posts Confirms he is Nothing more than A bot. A Troll bot.
Business people do provide jobs. Who else do you think provides them, fairies? You generalise, demean and insult every Australian who has had the guts to start a business as being greedy and amoral. I can only take this as it appears, that you are extremely bitter and don't have the guts to stand up and build your own business, instead whining about those that do. I am glad that don't employ you, you must be a real source of inspiration to your work mates.
Peter doesn't demean or insult just business people. He demeans and insults this forum with his stupidity. :lol:
Was listening to the radio today about a trend in the US called 're-shoring'. Some of America's largest companies are tooling up at home because rising wages, copywrite theft & escalating transport costs are making off-shoring expensive. The story started off with a little history, begining in Detroit outside Ford's 1st assembly plant. Henry Ford paid twice the average wage at $5/day. A move history has shown to be the most stabilising effect on the labour market ever achieved and lauded by Henry Ford in his memoirs as the greatest cost cutting move he ever made. After the wage rise, Ford's plants had less absenteeism and within 2 years had doubled production & profits. Fast forward to today GE has just tooled up to produce high efficiency water heaters. Management claims being close to their customers allows them to quickly refine their products as the local market dictates much faster than an overseas factory. Westinghouse whom are also in the process of re-shoring claim product revision times are now no longer years apart, but every 3 months. They have to produce locally to get their product on the showrooms in time. WALMART has also introduced a policy to buy local products... as long as they are of the same price/quality. It is predicted that as many as 20% of US companies will return to the US in the next 5 years.
Your telling me that most businessman wouldn't sack people working there if they found they could do without them? Business only employ people because they have to. If they didn't have to, they wouldn't. I didn't say that they didn't employ.But to praise themselves for trying to make money by employing , when they have no option.......
Hey that's what I said. Stops copies me. Stops copies me. Stops copies me. Edit: For the uninitiated: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXVyff6759g[/youtube]
Peter not all employers are heartless. Also, look at what a business is. It is an enterprise to provide a livelihood for the owner. The specific purpose of a business is to run efficiently and to make enough profit for the owner to make them a living and to make all the risks and hard work worth it. Businesses naturally create jobs. Job creation is not the purpose of business though. You are correct, businesses only employ because they have to, they are businesses, not welfare agencies. If a business does not need staff they are not evil for reducing staff numbers, there is no moral reason for one person to employ another person if they don't need to employ them. I don't know where the idea comes from that a business has a moral obligation to employ people when they don't need employees. That is a role eminently suited to government. No one has a moral obligation to employ another person. Staff are not the children or dependants of employers. No-one gives a damn about the suffering of business owners when they are struggling but you intimate that they are bad people if they reduce staff? Why should any Australian live under an obligation to provide a job for another Australian when they have no need for an employee? You carry on about heartless employers but you don't acknowledge the suffering and trials that Australians who own businesses suffer, all the while with the government pointing a gun at their heads and forcing them to keep staff on that they don't need. Businesses are not charities, that does not make them evil or immoral. No-one has a right to a job. If you don't like working for someone else then start your own business and employ people yourself and you can enjoy a life where suddenly all of their problems become yours but no-one gives a hoot about your problems. The moral issue is around how employers treat their staff and how they go about changing staffing levels. This is what separates the "greedy employer" from the rest. .
The thing I find amazing you have someone who is paid 5 - 8 million a year or more for example and they really screw the pooch and the company looses a few hundred million and then they still get a multi million dollar bonus. Then there are lay offs and talk of hundreds or thousands of people loosing jobs.
To put it into perspective- Tiger woods earned 78.1 million dollars in 2013 from appearance fees, endorsements and course design work. 78 million in one year for playing golf. Taylor Swift: $57 million. For singing. Justin Beiber: $55 million for singing. (kind of) Kristen Stewart: $34.5 million for sleeping her way through Twilight. And people complain that someone earns $6 million dollars a year for running a national communications carrier or an airline? For gods sake, Shane Warne is estimated to be worth over 50 million dollars. For throwing a ball.
What shits me is the slackers that turn up for "appearance money" & do fk all work when the others are working flat out to get a job done . Ive had one egghead saywhen i chipped him about doing nothing "but you dont say anything to "x" when hes standing around " & i replied " yeah because he does twice as much work as you in half the time he deserves a break.". If you work hard you get privileges the slackers dont. If you do your work nobody says anything if your a slacker you will get ridden like a mongrel donkey until you leave .Its te only way with these stupid unfair dismissal laws ..... Did you get ridden at work today ? :
Try working in the finance sector. The people who do the least tend to get paid the most. Even in companies that haven't made a profit in a decade. The last company I was working with (listed on the ASX) hadn't made a profit in 10 years (average loss of 2 million per year). But that didn't stop the manager getting huge salary increases (40% one year - to over 300K), and increases in his 'retention' bonus. Despite the fact he didn't actually do much work, or produce any results. He turned up at 9:15 had 2 hour lunches (reading the newspaper), then left before 5pm. Nice work if you can get it.
People start business's to make money. They will employ the least number of employees to do that. This is logical and correct. They have a hard time succeeding sometimes but this is part of the gamble of business . They have to sack people if the economics demands it. Some will dislike doing this. I can understand that all this is necessary. My objection is only that some big note themselves For creating jobs as if that was the purpose, Not making money. There are some very good employers.
I agree. I think that the moral obligation with employers lies with how they treat their staff and how they handle times when they have to reduce staff by being sensitive to the circumstances of the person, giving them plenty of notice and trying to assist them with finding a new position. I assume that you are talking about the giant corporations that use "we create jobs" as an excuse to let them bully governments (kind of like "too big to fail" I guess). I don't know what to say about that, it does seem that there is a line that some business tycoons and giant corporations cross where their staff do become little more than "production modules" in the eyes of executives. That's whole other level of distortion of society, it gets into the "corporatocracy" area where corporations and governments merge and it's pretty dark, like a cleaner, modern version of the factories of the Industrial Revolution. I am with you there, I think that corporations like this are retrogressive and extremely unhealthy.
If someone is on a multi million dollar salary and while they are running the show and saying how great things are and how they are expecting a profitable year then the company looses hundreds of millions of dollars they should then recieve a multi million dollar bonus? I thought bonuses were payed for good performance? Your comments about sportsman and singers getting huge amounts of cash - Justin Beiber for example I would say he is a waste of space and he should not be getting anywhere that amount of cash. What is his contribution?
There is a big difference when you get paid millions of $ to look after other peoples capital than when it is your own capital that you have earned over a period of time. A small business person who risks his hard earned dollars has more to loose than executive staff in major banks or corporations. They have a bad year and they still get a good payout but the small businessman has the pressure on him each and every year to finish in the black. To me there is a big difference between big and small business. Do any small BUSINESSMEN get a bailout if they become insolvent. However, Corporations have become so corrupt that their motto seems to be Don't let any small business get in your way at our expense or we will crush you. As for the banks the businessmen of Cyprus trusted them and look what happened.. I bet my bottom $ that the bank managers in Cyprus didn't loose all their money. If the bank in system ever comes into force in Australia, be you a small businessman, a professional worker, a blue collar worker or any other kind, your savings will be gone in a flash and only then will you all say what a bunch of crooks we had at the top. Regards Errol 43
Multi-million dollar salaries are obscene. I can't imagine how one can actually 'earn' that sort of wealth.
Some interesting thoughts in this discussion from one very smart man. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZTzPmn-87w[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_hiEvTNV5k[/youtube] [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yonUgZ2Y6Qs[/youtube]
