See? Put a dollar figure on something and all of a sudden people start caring about it. That is why the energy companies don't invest in renewables out of the goodness of their hearts. It would be cheaper for them to pump their crap into the air so they can make money and we get left with the consequences. It's no different to a factory dumping toxic waste into a nearby river but everybody suddenly stops thinking clearly as soon as the work "carbon" is mentioned because vested interests have trained us like little dogs to go bonkers as soon as somebody says the code word. Keep calling the carbon tax a scam if you like but you're arguing on the side of the companies that have been ripping us off with their infrastructure overbuilding and polluting our communities for profit.
That PROVES what I said. They currently are not economic without subsidies. At some stage in the future they may well be able to stand on their own two feet but at the moment our electricity prices are higher because they are being forced into the grid. Simple.
Look, we can either subsidise individuals so they can be more self-sufficient by generating their own electricity at home or we can let people stay addicted to not-as-cheap-as-it-used-to-be coal power and let the energy companies make fat profits pumping crap into the air. It's you and me or Big Coal. Pick one. And go back and do the sums again with a 3kWh PV system at $5500 (roughly half what that table had them priced at last year) and the grid price at a minimum of 25c/kWh ('cause it sure isn't 19c any more).
Economics 101 subsidies result in waste of resources and total welfare but you don't believe this so pointless discussing really.
Hmm the local bottle shop is owned by a young Chinese girl & her mum , they're selling the business & moving back . Maybe I should ask why ?
16 yrs and no rise in temperature despite copious amounts of extra CO2. See the carbon tax is working already.
Thats a scary chart ,up over 1 degree in two hundred and fifty years . F*ck its never gunna rain again
The "global warming" hoax depends on tiny samples in the 100's of years range to bamboozle and panic people for financial and political control motives, so they use graphs that show noise as opposed to signal. To give an accurate viewpoint you have to provide a decent sized sample, which of course shows the great cycles of the Earth's temperature history, and the natural descent into the next ice age that will not be interrupted by the blip that is humans with cars and aircon.
Might be a great time to invest in the ski resorts that'll be left standing for a few decades. Be an overabundance of tropical ones
You are quoting from a report that is already discredited. Even in that article the last paragraph concludes: Your carbon tax is as pathetic as the political hacks who seize on any scrap of information that they can claim justifies what they have done. Less manufacturing and a flood at a brown coal mine that reduces power production by that facility does not make a success for the carbon tax. It makes a fool out of the politicians that are too desperate for supporting headlines to understand the cause. Note the reduced manufacturing? One of the predicted outcomes of this insane policy is having an impact. But of course the Canberra politburo has outlawed anyone identifying the carbon tax as the cause of job losses or business failures. :lol: The world has simply gone insane.
So it's not thinking clearly to disbelieve the government? I'm an evil corporatist if I disbelieve the government? I support dumping toxic waste into rivers if I don't believe the government? :lol: that's priceless. The banks buying, selling, trading the government issued credits while the government clips transaction fees, financially rapes the population on both the tax and the GST on the increased prices, while manufacturers close and jobs are lost and that's all ok? While the only effect on pollution is an inferred and hypothetical outcome of socially engineering a demand in the population for cleaner energy? You must be bonkers! With the reduction in output by Yallourn, Hydro generation has increased 50% to cover the load. That's right, they don't need to burn that much coal and they have surplus hydro capacity but don't use it. The CO2 tax is a scam. Pure and simple. :lol:
Jim Rogers has said, if you were smart in the 18th century, you moved to France. If you were smart in the 19th century, you moved to England. If you were smart in the 20th century, you moved to the US. And if you're smart in the 21st century, you move to Asia. Since Australia seems to wish to be part of Europe or America, for some it's time to move.
You think energy intensive manufacturing is more affected by the carbon tax than the fact that the Australian dollar is now worth about 100% more than it was ten years ago when those businesses were profitable? And for what it's worth "energy-hungry manufacturing" is a reference to the Kurri Kurri aluminium smelter near Newcastle which was already cutting production before the carbon tax due to the high AUD, energy costs that were already higher (from overbuilding the grid) and a great big glut of aluminium on the global market that's pushed prices way down. Even the company that owned the plant said the carbon tax was only a small factor in their decision to shut it down.
Hey, at least the government is theoretically supposed to represent the interests of the people. Big business is hard-wired to represent the interests of shareholders. By all means, go ahead and question the government but don't for a minute think that the line coming from the corporate sector is about anything more than them getting their hands on more cash. The energy industry screwed themselves on this one. They had an awesome business model borrowing hundreds of millions of dollars at 5%, spending it on poles and wires that that would only be used for a few dozen hours a year and then getting their "regulated return" by jacking power prices up by 12%. Now people are either going green - either because they want to do something for the environment or simply because their bank account is better off - and that brilliant business model is coming unstuck. They're the textbook definition of rentiers, leeching off society and complaining that their cosy little oligopoly isn't working any more. The real scam is the that people have been convinced they can blame anything bad that happens on the carbon tax and on top of that be outraged that you're not actually allowed to blame the carbon tax for the occurrence of bad things unless you can prove it caused them. I mean, how dare they require you to provide evidence to back up your claims!
We've said this a few times in a variety of ways before to you but in the hope it'll eventually sink in: - ALL people essentially work toward their own self interest (even if it is a completely twisted, evil, immoral thing like altruism). - how and what people do depends on the incentives put in front of them. The incentives are principally governed by the business model and good business models result in good incentives while bad business models result in bad incentives. (1)- The incentives of the market are such they encourage ever improving the use of scarce resources for the DIRECT benefit of its customers. And, yes it benefits the workers and share holders in the process because that's the fundamental self interest mechanism at play. The consumers fundamentally dictate the amount of benefit they get from each good and service provided by the private market (sometimes sluggishly) and consequently the people/businesses who maximise the welfare of their customers magically acquire wealth. The people/businesses who do not maximise the welfare of their customers will go bankrupt. (2) The incentives of Govt are such that they encourage ever-increasing taking of resources from the rest of the economy without any way of measuring the benefits to citizens. And yes, it benefits the workers in the process BUT there aren't any true shareholders of Govt so there is minimal accountability and consumers have minimal/no choice or ability in telling the Govt how much benefit they obtain from any given good or service provided by the Govt. Inevitably this leads to wastage of resources and a reduction in freedom and welfare of its citizens. (3) The most insidious aspect of (2) is that it has the ability to artificially manipulate the incentives put in front of the private market and thereby shift any blame for bad outcomes by sleight of hand. The immoral, corrupt welfare destroying activities of the banking system are the classic example littered throughout these threads. The blame does not lie at the foot of the bankers (who are largely just average people like you and me acting in the same way as every one else), the blame lies at the foot of the Govt completely screwing with the monetary system itself and thereby fundamentally distorting the monetary incentives put in front of the part of the market who's activities reside in the movement of money. Hence, in conclusion, the entity that you claim is theoretically working in the interest of the people is actually working against their interest while the big-business that you condemn to working in the interest of ONLY their shareholders actually benefits the interests of the people at the same time.
Hey Big AD, I find it hilarious that you resort to conspiracy theories of nefarious corporations inciting anti-carbon tax sentiments and casting me as a victim of their conspiratorial scam. :lol: Your precious government are the same that have provided your oligarchs with their monopolies and funding and continue to steal public money for that purpose. Both for the banks to rent seek on carbon trading and direct subsidies for polluting and uncompetitive industries like dirty power generators and aluminium manufacturers. Your attempt to deflect the scam of the CO2 tax to a personal conspiracy theory of evil corpratists plotting against the saintly Combet and Gillard is either the height of sarcasm or delusion. I'm not sure which, but am laughing along with you. http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/media...unding-for-point-henry-aluminium-smelter.html The AUD$ being more responsible for the drop in CO2 emissions than this stupid tax sounds about right though. Thanks for pointing that one out. I guess I'm leaning towards you being sarcastic with your defence of this tax. Thanks for the laughs.
