Ronnie, "I don't think your China story is sound" Could you point out where my view is NOT sound? I am not suggesting that China is any different with debt, in fact i was thinking that it is in fact the SAME! living beyond it's means. That is why i made the point. Having cash in the bank, and a stack of gold is only one side of the coin, the gold will NOT be sold, it is needed to back the Yuan. The red ink is still there and the Bonds are near worthless. And i am sure we WILL see riots around the world! - and worse! I am willing to bet that the 200 million+ private firearms and the BILLIONS of rounds of ammo, will make an NSA trooper think twice about taking them on. I have read somewhere that the average gun owner in the USA has 5 firearms, and over 5000 rounds of ammo. OC
I agree the situation will be grave and the US may become a battle ground. Remember the first action by Hitler was to disarm the population. I don't think private small arms are going to make a difference against a well armed, poorly educated force. We have seen this before ! The China story is complex but there are 4 points 1. The golden rule - he who has the gold makes the rules 2. US paper tiger - when the US paper blows up its entitlement population will rise up. I don't see the Chinese doing the same? just my opinion 3. Chine in recent years has moved from a totally autocratic country to a semi autocratic one - the US has gone the other way. 4. China has the world manufacturing base - the US produces arms and paper nothing much else. The good news is we dont have long to go to find out
PS, Personally, i simply cannot see the US Army, the NSA, the police or national guard, taking up arms and actually killing in street firefights, Americans. JMO OC
Ronnie, Remember that the US at the moment has millions?? of battle hardened vets from wars of the last decade and more. Even VN vets are still stewing about what is happening in America and able to use a M16 quite well. ....and the PLA has far more chance of firing in the people than the US Army. They already did that in Tienanmen Square. OC
It depends how bad things get. If the police keep getting paid, they will certainly shoot on their own people. Look at the recent govt shutdown, govt goons still tried to keep people from visiting national monuments. If it was me I'd let them walk right in.
Probably the most dear legend in America is that of the American 'Patriot', the minuteman, taking up arms against an oppressive ruler. The US Army will NEVER fire on the people! The NSA maybe if they try it, but not the American people, OC
Obama been getting rid of experienced long serving generals, recently.... If a man has to feed his family he is capable of anything OC
It is not the generals, those that will be making that decision or issuing the order. It is the privates, corporals and sergeants that will decide whether to carry it out or ignore it. My money is on the NCOs and 'other ranks'. OC
Would you believe in 1928 that the German government would exterminate, kill and murder 100's of thousands of its own citizens within 15 years ? A country of educated people culture and national pride ? We have seen this before. When 1 person stands on his head, he is sent to an asylum, when 10 people stand on their heads people look and try it out. When millions are standing on their heads, those on their feet are ridiculed. I have no doubt that the US government will exterminate all opposition and if that is a few million people - no one will care and more importantly no one will know. They will be focused on the next event at the Circus Maximus. Gun control will creep into their society as it has in ours and the population will be disarmed and rendered impotent. The American government has stolen the gold of its people in the 1930s and imprisoned thousands of its Japanese citizens confiscating their property and lands without compensation in the 1940s. What is a few returning vets going to do ? FEMA camps are ready and waiting. Once you take away the humanity from these people by calling them crazy, disturbed, interning them in camps and equating them to animals its is a short hop to murdering them. That is how Hitler did it - sub humans. Have you recently traveled to the US. I have and before boarding a ship to the US, the passengers were herded into a large room. Then segregated into different groups then made to wait for 2hous. Then the SS agents (sorry TSA agents) dressed in black uniforms came in and each person was interrogated as to what they were doing going to the US. We were all fingerprinted and my luggage was ripped apart and my case emptied on the counter. I was left to pack my clothes back in with people all around me watching the show. This was a luxury cruise haha can you imagine when things get bad. They degrade you, they mock you they laud over you and see you as less than human and so this well rehearsed story begins. You put far too much faith in the goodness and honesty of the US society. To me this is the beginning of a police state there can be no doubt.
OC, have you forgotten what happens when you dont carry out, or as you say, 'ignore' an order?.... Thats enough to make any do whats required to get the job done. On another point - the NSA have openly expressed concearn for how to deal with an entire generation of army verterns (2000-2013) that have had extensive exposure or knowledge about IED construction and consealment. What you are witnessing in the USA is counter measures to cool down the patriot temper these vets have when they realise they are coming hom to less freedoms.
SJ, "OC, have you forgotten what happens when you dont carry out, or as you say, 'ignore' an order?.... Thats enough to make any do whats required to get the job done." Armies have mutinied many times over the years, usually for just the same reason, refusing to kill their own citizens, and i am willing to bet the US Armed forces will NOT fire on Americans. And many if not all Americans are like us, they do not really TRUST the government. Also, there are 100+ MILLION blokes there with near 300 million rifles ets. The US Army has about a million. JMO OC
http://www.mineweb.com/mineweb/content/en/mineweb-gold-news?oid=219660&sn=Detail Indeed what are they up to?
JW, "Indeed what are they up to?" Said it before here, but the Chinese know what is coming and they are buying extra aces in the game. I fully expect they will make a play for the dominant Reserve Currency one day, not sure when but they will i am sure. To do that they need GOLD! enough to FULLY back the Yuan. They will need a LOT more gold and a LOT more Yuan to finance world trade as the USD does now. Not sure how they are actually paying for all this gold, whether they are discounting US Treasuries, or paying in USD, i do not know. I doubt they are going to tell anyone either! I agree that China will buy until there is no more to be had. JMO OC
PS, Does it REALLY matter what currency is the Reserve Currency. Better a gold backed Yuan than a fancy piece of fiat paper???? OC
Totally agree! Very hard to accomplish, but I guess what Im saying is.... Im not disagreeing that armies can mutiny, but awfully hard when the message that anyone can be a 'homeland threat' or 'terror suspect' is used to suppress uprising (even from general populous). You have to remember IF any orders were giving that turned force on the population in any way, it wouldn't be in general it would be towards a 'group'. Any group can be vilified in todays media and unfortunately it sways opinions and minds (soldier or not). A story can be created to justify any outcome. The major laws that have passed government in the US over the past 5 years have made major leaps in reducing or abolishing rights the American people had originally - weather it be to enable them to detain people on suspicion without questioning or reduce the ability to hold an opinion against the government (freedom of speech), just take a look at the enabling of Martial Law just in the last year (you cant tell me thats not a tool the governments wishes to use now they have it). I just feel these laws enable the US government in one way or another - theres now way too many tools on the governments side than what the people hold to defend themselves. SilverJay
Some are already talking about possible petro-gold or petro-yuan, as the petrodollar gradually gets disolved.
