ATO & eBay selling bullion, paying tax

They're on a fishing expedition.

 

I don't think I drew a distinction between the two but I meant to focus on the various laws that are reversing presumption of innocence in various matters of finance and taxation (and now anything that falls under the umbrella of "terrorism") in relation to the topic of this thread.

Some more info:

 

The ATO doesn't have to figure it out. They can just guess. You have to prove to them that it's not all profit (or whatever they claim is a taxable amount).

 

It probably goes something like this:

1. Match eBay data with ATO/ABN/Company records.
2. If eBay member does not have a business or company then:
2.1 If gross eBay earnings >= $10K and < $20K then send warning letter (hobbies vs business)
2.2 If gross eBay earnings >= $20K and < $40K then review previous tax returns, bank records. Request an explanation if required
2.3 If gross eBay earnings >= $40K then audit individual
...

 

I dont sell that much on ebay so nothing to prove...

 

If the ATO send you an assessment notice and you dispute it, you'll need to provide something (accountants can usually help you find something).

 

If you have a accountant and mentioned that you sell on Ebay he or she would have told you that the threshold is $10,000 AU. As once you hit the $10,000 mark you are no longer considered to be a hobby or clearing out some used items. You are now considered to be a online business. I've been selling for many years on Ebay a life time of odds and sods ( non bullion ) and it may take another lifetime to get rid of it, but I've been well aware of this ATO law for many years. I do this outside of my regular work. You need to be wary, if you look in your Ebay summary total sales are listed in US dollars and this can pose a problem for those who are unaware. I would say that being marginally over, you may incur a small slap on the wrist in a form of a warning. If you have a partner or are married set up another account in her name and sell from two different accounts. This means that there are 2 separate Paypal accounts, plus separate bank accounts, plus credit cards so both accounts are totally unique. That way you can stay under the threshold. I feel for you, as a fair percentage is lost in Ebay, Paypal fees plus postage costs. Gee if you sold a caravan or a car on Ebay that could easily put you over the $10,000 threshold in one foul swoop.

 

I stoped using Ebay many years ago, but if you sell coins or bars many of you sale will be at loss.
It is easy to prove; just try to sell a 1 oz gold bar with profit after fees and postage. You suppose to pay tax on you profit, not on you turnover, so if they consider your activity as business I would try to claim for small losses on my eBay sales if I were you.

 

Whoops bump again.

 

Hi there, you are wrong about your opening statement- " The $10,000 threshold is just a commonly used yardstick by accountants - it's not legislated anywhere." Let's put things into context. Miniroo had breached the $10,000 threshold with Ebay online trading. What has happened, once Miniroo had breached the limit Ebay sent him a generated message requiring him to notify the ATO.

Here is the link from the ATO about " Online selling data matching program protocol "

https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Gen/Data-matching-program-protocol/

There is a lot to read, but in a nutshell all online selling activities can be data matched and online business have to hold data.

Here's a small except from the ATO data matching protacol which mentions the $10,000 threshold applied by ATO's own laws.

Data elements

The ATO endeavours to work collaboratively with data providers to ensure that requests for data are easily understood and reasonable in terms of costs of compliance.

The following data elements, where available, will be requested from the online selling site, in relation to all online sellers with sales of $10,000 or greater in the 2013-14 financial year:

Account name
Account identification
First name
Last name
Business name
Address
Telephone numbers
Date of birth
Email address
Registration date
Number of annual sales transactions
Value of annual sales transactions
Number of monthly sales transactions
Value of monthly sales transactions
Internet Protocol (IP) address
Seller status tier type
Business / Store status indicator yes/no

Even those members on this forum who trade in excess of $10,000 per per annum on Silverstackers just be wary, as this would also be considered as online trading. And the ATO could also data match accounts or data from in relation to transaction activities. Just play by the rules.

In essence, I agree mostly in part with the rest of what you said. Particularly about flipping your rolls of 1oz Goats regularly on Ebay. That in it's self sends up a red flag. As for those just getting rid of Odds and Sods you don't have much to worry about. Most of us have accumulated a lifetime of junk could spend a lifetime to off load it. That's what Ebay and Gumtree are good for. As for Miniroo, just be honest with the ATO about your activities.

Cheers......

 

Bump.

 

No. Ebay will automatically send the details to the ATO. The user does not have to contact the ATO.
Ebay have been ordered/asked by the ATO to provide all the details of anyone who earned more than $10k in a year, and they are complying with that request.

 

Yep, spot on.
One could argue though that anyone who was deliberately trying to run a "business" on ebay and stay under that threshold, then they aren't even worth the effort to go after anyway, the tax is pitiful in the scheme of things. Almost by definition $10k-$20k in sales in a year would not be a serious attempt at a business.
Heck you could sell your car on ebay and be over that threshold and potentially be asked for a "please explain" from the ATO. What a pain in the arse and a waste of tax office resources.
I do hope they look for trading history because hassling people. e.g. selling the same new items over and over would be indicative of a business. Selling a bunch of 2nd hand items would not be.

 

Wrong again- Online selling data matching program protocol - 2013-14 financial year 2013 - 2014 is the last financial year and the ATO specifies $10,000 not $20,000. Do people actually carefully read posts. You have a habit of this.

Cheers.

 

Regardless of the word protocol or legislation the ATO are up front with their threshold. From Miniroo's point of view I'd think he's more concerned about answering to the ATO...I hope all goes well for him.

Cheers

 

Yes it was $20k.
Just google "ebay $20k threshold" plenty of references.
In fact it used to be $50k before that it seems.
http://www.busaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53101