a few nice old Sydney sovs and a question about the 1877s

Discussion in 'Sovereigns' started by phrenzy, Dec 4, 2014.

  1. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    Saw these at a local today and liked the condition for the age. I'm quickly amassing sovs even though I'm not really looking for gold...

    These are in much nicer condition than my last 1899p sovs, the plastic has a few dings but the 75 and 77 are particularly nice.


    My question though is on the 1877 s. I got a 2013 edition of Rennik's guide but for some reason the 1877s isn't in there, every other year and mark is in there but not the 77...for some reason it's missing. Anyone have the 2014? Is it in there?

    Now the good stuff:

    [​IMG]
    Source:ME!

    [​IMG]
    Source: ME!

    [​IMG]
    Source:ME!
     
  2. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    OK so according to a sovereign website and a coin dealer I rang the reason it's not in Renniks is because they simply didn't make an 1877 st george in Sydney. The only problem with that being I'm holding one in my hand right now...comments?
     
  3. silver addict

    silver addict Active Member Silver Stacker

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    this is taken from 2013 mcdonalds
     
  4. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    That's for the shield though. Definitely an 1877 S st george.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0JaDyzL9OM[/youtube]
     
  5. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    ...am I a millionaire?
     
  6. silver addict

    silver addict Active Member Silver Stacker

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  7. spannermonkey

    spannermonkey Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    here there everywhere
    Have you weighed it , could be a jewellers copy
     
  8. silver addict

    silver addict Active Member Silver Stacker

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  9. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    Within two one hundredths of a gram of my 75s in the same cardboard cover:
    [​IMG]
    Source:

    [​IMG]
    Source:
     
  10. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    Accordingto Rennik's the mint mark is below the portrait of the queen on the young head and moved on the latter ones.

    Plus it has that slight darkening sheen old sovs get. I know it can't be but it seems legit...now I don't know what to think.

    Anyone want to give me a quarter million for it now before I take it to a dealer? :)
     
  11. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    Just weighed an empty 22mm cardboard protector and it's a little over 2g. That accounts for the extra weight.
     
  12. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    Obviously the odds of this being a 1920s style "few in existence" coin are pretty low but how common are jewelers sovs that are the exact right size and weight? Is there anything specific I should be looking for?
    I know I'm new to sovereigns but it looks pretty kosher to me and Sydney did make young head st george sovs in previous years so it's not like it's impossible they made one or two that year...
     
  13. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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  14. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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  15. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    It doesn't have any of the obvious signs but I agree this is the likely explenation. Why would someone make such a high quality counterfeit from a year that doesn't exist and would be immediately suspect though?
    Next step is getting it xrf'd and take it to a numismatic dealer I guess.
     
  16. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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    Wrong year, types, die pairings etc are common in fakes. Does not mean its not worth checking it out but I would say this is a fake. Looking forward to the verdict, you may just have the exception to the rule.
     
  17. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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    It could also be the case that when they made it they didnt know that there was not any sovereigns from that mint in that year.
     
  18. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    I think xrf will be key. I won't get excited until it comes back with the right copper to gold ratio.

    I wonder why they never made an 1877 s st george when they made one previous years? I can't find a good history on it.

    Even if it is real I suppose you might never find out, I wonder how they came to recognize the 1920s that only has a few known examples.
     
  19. bja

    bja Member Silver Stacker

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    from memory they melted most of what they minted, hence why they are rare. They always knew they had minted them.
     
  20. phrenzy

    phrenzy In Memoriam - July 2017 Silver Stacker

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    Went to a couple places today. Got it XRFd and it vane back 22k alloyed with copper like you'd want. Weighed in expensive scales out of the packet and it was 1/100th of a gram under so within tolerance for a slightly worn coin.
    Opinion was divided but intriguingly in one of the big volumes of Australian coins I wasn't familiar with (looked like the white pages) listed 2 known examples of Sydney 1877 S st george sovereigns so they were made and do exist though never for circulation, the assumption being that the mint only made a small handful of prototypes and a couple escaped. Good news though the balance of probability is still that this is a fake.

    Maybe this went home in someone's pocket from the mint on the day they struck them.
     

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