But you clearly are up in arms...look at your comments. I would defend any similar small business that was condemned in this way. Small businesses deserve better than that. This all reminds me of the politically correct wave of intolerance that I am seeing more of in my own country....how dare someone make a slip up or some small business not be perfect....crucify them! .
I am looking forward to complete the series. ... I think both Gemini & Cancer looks well (although Taurus & Aries look the best so far).... with 2 coins on sale at the same time, it will reduce our postage cost at least.... Imagine to hv all the 12 skeletons on the display case...
Listen, the bottom line is, some people get sick & tired of all the over-promises & under-deliveries after a while, that we see so much of thoughout this industry.. Whether it's delays, or the product not turning out like originally planned/described because they screwed up / cheaped-out / had to scale back / intentionally misrepresented, or holding onto customers' money for too long, or the buyers not even getting the product at all, or whatever. Customers grow weary of it after seeing & experiencing enough of it. Oftentimes, there's fairly-decent money at stake. And they say, rightfully so, "You know what? Enough is enough!" Yeah, stuff happens.. Whatever, that's life. Understandable sometimes, as long as it's reasonable & isn't a widescale, recurring thing. But for whatever reason(s), it seems like it happens comparatively more often in this industry, versus others, sadly. Some of the best *sellers* out there, IMO..? Easy, upfront & complete communication, willing to be somewhat flexible if needed, speedy & safe shipping, and item in-hand as originally shown/described. Bing, bang, done. Love it! That's the way it's supposed to be. As an occasional seller, I make every effort to practice this with every sale I make. Because you know what? Buyers make note of that, and are more likely to do repeat business with you. And some of the best *producers* out there, in my eyes, as odd as it might sound to some..? "Yep, got a product coming out.. Probably sometime later this summer, no firm date yet [to disappoint you with if it's 'late']. Here are a couple photos of a prototype. Here are a few specifications. No money needed until they go live for sale. Save up your pennies! Will keep you guys posted.." Follows up on any questions. Then somewhere down the road, when sufficient quantity & quality are ready to be released? They actually deliver as a seller as described above! Again, stackers/collectors make note of that -- and yep, are more likely to do repeat business with you. Did I mention that buyers / stackers / collectors also like to "gab" with one another in various ways? Better believe that they will share both the good & the bad with each other.. In private conversations, on public forums, on YouTube, etc. Anyway, no knock against the SM rounds, themselves. Not totally my thing (especially that center skull on every one, gah!).. But they almost got me with a couple designs. Still open to any of the rest of the series. Hope they turn out timely & cool, and all do well for everybody in the after-market.
If someone has had for years, over and over and over and over again, the experience of receiving many of their coins months later than reasonably expected, then I can understand why someone would get frustrated and rag on the next small business that they experienced a similar issue with. But if that's not the case, I don't understand the frustration one bit....life is far from perfect and things go wrong even for the most well intentioned small businesses. If someone is going to be financially damaged in a serious way from buying a single silver and copper medal for $90, then maybe they have their priorities in very bad order to begin with if they are buying silver and copper instead of true necessities. I understand that there are truly poor people for whom $90 is the equivalent of their monthly income....these folks shouldn't be buying silver and copper coins if that means it prevents them from buying something much more important. .
Well, seeing that every single medal that has been released has increased in value even with the delays I don't have any regrets buying them, I have a bunch of other coins that I cant even get issue price for , some can be bought for 50% of issue price now and again. If all the coins/medals/rounds that I buy preformed like these, I would be a happy camper.
Come on, mmissing.. Some people have every right to be pissed in a case like this, as that's their prerogative & their money. I've got no skin in this particular game either way, but I can most certainly see why some customers would be a wee bit upset & even turned-off by this kind of stuff. And some buy more than one set.. Maybe throw in a goldie, too. Is there a widely-accepted official dollar amount where it suddenly becomes "okay" to get pissed? Nonsense. Doesn't matter if it's $90 or $9 or $900 USD. It should *not* be happening with sellers & producers, period! And the same goes for length of delay, level of product quality not as described, etc. As mentioned earlier, it seems this kind of activity happens way too often in this industry. And after seeing / experiencing enough garbage going on, more & more potential customers might eventually tell anybody who attempts to utilize it, to go stuff it with the whole pre-order system, for example -- and have the producers find some other way to fund their project. Again, each instance should be treated on a case-by-case basis, where a customer, themselves, determines what they're personally & reasonably comfortable with accepting. Just be aware that not everybody will share the same leniency as any given individual might.. I understand you're cool with it all, and I'm sure producers & sellers love that kind of customer, as it's certainly to their advantage & perhaps even emboldens them further. But not everybody's willing to put up with that..
@ Gatito, We will have to agree to disagree. It's not about a $$ amount or having/not having the right to be pissed off...it's about expectations of perfection and also misplaced priorities. I don't see it as unreasonable that there is an unforeseen delay...this is a growing pain for a small business. By having unreasonable expectations, we end up discouraging worthwhile undertakings by small businesses of projects that might be too costly for them to foot the bill for entirely up front. I am not too lenient....in fact, when it comes to a business that is guilty of intentional shenanigans, I could rightly be charged with being too hard and unforgiving. .
Doesn't matter if it's a small business or a large business.. What I described earlier in this thread is just plain sh|tty business -- regardless of who does it or why.
Yeah, sure....why just stop there? With that 'logic', why not make death threats to them? But it does matter on at least two counts: 1) a large firm generally has (and has access to) levels of capital that a small business doesn't. So while a large firm like the Perth Mint can easily absorb the costs of producing a boat load of product well before the product is initially publicized, a small business like SM might not. SM is not even a mint in the sense that they produce coins/medals/rounds as far as I understand. 2) because SM is not a mint, unlike a large firm like the Perth Mint which produces its own products, SM will experience growth pains when they are developing a new product line in which they have to rely on others for its production....it's normal for small businesses to experience these unplanned hiccups. As I already mentioned, SM has already learned from the recent past and the hiccup(s) they encountered, shipping out 2 new issues in at least 2 different metals in a matter of a couple or so days. There is no quality problems with the ZodiacSkulls medals that I'm aware and so it's a moot point to specifically discuss that in any criticisms of SM's ZodiacSkulls product. If anything, arguably, the quality of the actual product is better than the pronouncements. .
There is no quality problems with the ZodiacSkulls medals that I'm aware and so it's a moot point to specifically discuss that in any criticisms of SM's ZodiacSkulls product. If anything, arguably, the quality of the actual product is better than the pronouncements. I can finally agree with you! I thought I was going to be impossible! And for the record I have been buying there coins sense the lunar goat skull last fall... Remember the delays on that? Almost two months after the original 1.5 months they said It would take. I wish I was still in the series I loved it. But this summer I sold them because I saw prices dropping and and the money I had invested just sitting somewhere. I'm all for small businesses I own one. But I don't collect money from my customers and then not deliver on time. If some things is that late all I'm saying is you should send out an email offering there money back. If the capsule delay was the problem ok. But I guess you should have done better r&d before giving people an estimate on time. I'm not saying there terrible I'm just saying unfortunately I'm out of the series. Yea maybe I'm not rich and few hundred dollar does mean something to me. Doesn't mean I'm an idiot and should have spent it on food...
mmissing, If you re-read, you'll notice I didn't say that SM is guilty of everything I described. But that they are just one example of many which, yes, has over-promised & under-delivered (more than once). The quality of the zodiac rounds actually looks quite nice, from what I've seen. Though if you remember, the 1.5 mm or whatever "high-relief" of the Lunar Goat Skulls that was originally stated, well, turned out to not be the case or anywhere near that. (Not to mention *their* wee bit delay. ) Again, this is not a large business or small business issue. Not every small business out there relies on start-up funding from their customers (who apparently get put on the back-burner once the cash is in hand), and businesses of all sizes have to rely on other industry entities all the time. And again, I don't care if it has 1 employee or 1 million employees -- what I decribed is sh|tty business, plain & simple. If you want to keep rewarding that kind of behavior, that's your prerogative & your money. Enjoy.
^ If the delays were intentional and if SM intended to deceive it's customers, then of course I wouldn't reward that behavior. But none of that is the case with SM as far as I'm aware so I feel perfectly okay buying the ZodiacSkulls series....especially since SM clearly seems to have ironed out the kinks they experienced previously. .
Me too. Enjoying the on-going series n happy v the 2 coins each release schedule. Hopefully SM can reward all forumers here who had bought all the 12 coins a free display case.
I just received Gemini and Cancer Ag. and Cu. today...they look considerably better in hand than in flat photos. I will take video tomorrow or early next week to show. .
