Does anyone know why all of a sudden the 2013 1oz silver panda is worth $60.64 according to Perth Bullion?
Perfect, I have a ton! Previous years usually get a bump when new issue comes out. Only year with three pandas (think it will be a big winner down the road) and my personal favorite.
If dealers run out of their stock they ask higher prices for the remaining stock. Most people think the pandas mintage is too high to build up premiums, but the markets outside china only see a few of the whole supply. All the rest is lost inside china. i can remember that my local dealer asked me once if a would consider to sell back pandas from 2009 i once purchased from him, as he could easily seel them back to china on good rates. Have a look back to the years 08,09,10,11,12. How good is the supply for these years in australia. I expect not much. Also in germany the premiums are already hugh on these years. Pandas worked out to be a very good hedge against a falling price of silver. Pands from 2012 compared to Lunar Year of the Dragon ( POS was really high on issue of this coins ) did much better in terms of price stability. If you are aware of fakes stay away from ebay and purchase from trustful sources or your local dealer.
Good to know Ninetendo. Great info. I always shyed away from the Pandas simply because of the 8 million mintage, but it sounds like a majority of these are in the hands of 'strong hands' of the chinese population. It's kind of funny...It sounds like we in the U.S. and Europe get really excited about the 'neat medals' coming out of the china, when we should be really excited to grab as many pandas as we can. Yes?
Buy them in the US. I checked recent ebay sales for non-slabbed 2013 Pandas and the sale prices ranged from $22-35 w/shipping. A way to determine the market value of a coin is what will a dealer pay you for it. Apmex is out of 2013 Pandas and will pay you spot +$7USD. 2013 Lunar Snakes are spot + $13USD (Provident). In the US market, the dealer premiums for the coins at issuance were $6-7 Panda and $6-8 (maybe $7-9) Snake. I agree with ninteno about the dealer pricing is influenced by quantity on hand, but I disagree that the Chinese market is absorbing most of the Panda demand. If the Chinese Panda market was that strong, someone could be making good money buying in the US and reselling to China. US Ebay sales prices indicate little demand for the Pandas. The combination of higher mintage and counterfeiting severely damaged the Panda market in the US and a lot of us stopped buying Pandas.
The China market buyback for 2013 panda in sheet at around USD36. However, it is very hard to ship back to china except you are bearing the high custom duty and tax or sell super low to cover the custom duty and tax. Thus, it is not making sense for individual person like us to sell back to china. The china coin dealer might not trust you too since both are stranger to each other and/or he/she would not like to deal with the custom. Generally, some overseas coin dealers are good term with shipping companies and coin dealers in China. They have ways to avoid the taxes which make it win win situation for both parties. For individual, I did sold the panda to china dealer at coin show with good margin. Another way is bring small quantity of sheet panda to Beijing or/shanghai during business or leisure trip and link up with china dealer for the selling. Pray hard you will not get taxes at custom. Therefore, the channel of making money out from 1 oz recent year silver panda sheet by selling to china dealers as individual are limited as comparing to dealers.
I do not know how to view to prices of apmex is mirroring the US market, but please leave ebay out of the game if we want to try to find market prices. Even on the upside or downside there are high gaps to the market. I list the prices of ampex 2008 - 69.99 US$ 2009 - no stock 2009 (specia 30th anni ) - no stock 2010 - 49.99 US$ 2011 - no stock 2012 - no stock 2013 - no stock 2014 - 30.43 US$ 2015 - 24.93 US$ With so much missing this seems not to be the US market maker. The chinease people are clever, they do not give away their silver (and gold ) to other countries. The give a few to show the world what they are able to do and point out their strength. Other nations lend PM to the market to protect their own currency. They also do not care about if its their own PM or not. They also dont care about scamming people with their minipulation policies, wether their own citizens nor any others. I can list up more and more, but a short view to my avator gives you an idea how i think about some things. Back to Pandas Dont care about the mintage of 8 Millions coins, the market will not see them. I am sure 90% or more will never leave china. Your comment with low demand i also cant follow. I can easyly sell 200-300 2010 pandas @33 into the private market without waiting days to do so. I like Au Lunars very much, dont get me wrong, but Pandas are the better coiche for me in terms of pricestability, future demand and future prices ( talking about 1oz size ) Pandas are a absolute must have in any physical PM portfolio.
ninteno, I was being kind on Panda prices. Ebay prices are on the high side, so that makes the argument for Pandas in the US even worse. I never stated Apmex was the US market maker, but they are a large US coin dealer. And I doubt that 90% of the Pandas stay in China. Virtually every dealer site I visit has Pandas for sale. If only a small amount of the Pandas were shipped to the US, that wouldn't be the case and the premium wouldn't be $6.xx. I no longer keep up with that type of data, but in the past, I am sure 90% of the Pandas didn't stay in China. I agree that the Chinese people are clever, so why would they pay a higher price for Pandas over bars? Pandas may be a better investment for you, but for most of us, that is no longer the case. I can't follow your comment about my comment about low demand. Only being able to sell 2-300 coins into a billion population market meets the criteria of low demand. Hopefully, the Chinese market treats you well on your Panda investments, but in the US, the market is weak. I still have two sheets of 2010 Pandas, but that is the extent of my Panda investment. And I would have sold those coins, but the US market is too weak. I have answered the OP regarding his question, so there isn't any need for me to continue in this discussion.
Please be in mind that 8 million is only the MAXIMUM mintage, whether they mint that many is another story. I believe the 2012 is far below the 8m mark, so does 2013 too.
btw, what's with the 2012, How come it's so hard to find and the MS70 is like more expensive than 2011 :\ Was there something special about the 2012 that i missed? 2013 is my fav by far, up there with 2009, and 1985
Problem is that no one knows the actual mintage until a few years later, but the demand/supply drives the price. The 2011 couldn't yield much premium until a couple of months ago, someone started a panda coins fund pool and have acquired a lot of the lower premium 2011 pandas which drove the price up by 20% to 30% just in days. There's always a hand behind to control the pandas...
do we know the actual mintages of 10 11 12 13 ? surely not at the max cap right? oh had no idea, is that a groupbuy or something? what's this fund you speak of? can we take part?
It's like a precious metal trust or something, accumulates gold and silver, until certain amount, then it can go public by IPO. 2011 panda coins was one of the coins they bought.
They are many trade secret for silver and gold medal and coin in china. A few dealers can control the majority of the total population (i.e more than 60% or higher). They use many ways to make money. As small collector and consumer you might get no information and get into wrong coins/medal. However, it is adventures areas for china coin and medal. The art is very attractive. No market in USA and you cannot find any sales channel in other countries better not to buy. However, this does not means the coin is no market and no good. It is your sources and capability to sell at profit.
