Yeah, that's interesting (funny) how (tax) policy differs from differentiate between EU countries. The Germans have some advantage when importing silver. I'm getting different worldwide news from one of our PM dealers. I remember it was once written that German "relation" to silver is something special, more similar to Chinese. I guess now won't be so much different than in the rest of EU. I think there were some propositions of having similar tax rates on at least some areas, but I'm not sure. It became even more obvious with crisis that "South" is catching "North" too slowly.
I once read an explanation for German populations' interest in precious metals (if true, dunno, there is a big amount dealers though): the hyperinflation of the Weimar republics' mark sits fresh (on the historical timeline then) in their memory so they take the chance on an eventual euro equivalent storyline much more serious than other countries/populations. That hyperinflation destroyed the savings of an entire population, that had to restart from scratch, having worked years/decades, for nothing.
Hmm. Got this in my email. So I guess it really is happening! At least I don't have any tax on the silver/gold here.
Looks as if it's too late to beat the VAT increase. Aurinum closed for " tax purposes " and early holidays; CoinInvestDirect have taken all their silver coins off their website. Merry Christmas stackers !
That's huge! 19 % is terrible... I wonder why they are doing this? Either the German economy is performing so poorly, they need to squeeze out money from all sorts of taxes or... they know something is about to happen: like silver depletion or probably the sale of silver is very high in Germany? I'd like to know what exactly lies at the roots of this higher VAT.
Over a month ago I got 3 emails from 3 dealers all saying that it was POSSIBLE that German tax would increase. Your email is from a silver seller. A vested interest place, and of course, once again, no official source. I noticed that all common silver coins at certain big dealers are out of stock, since a couple weeks. Yet, dealers in other countries have everything available. Something doesn't fit here. How do dealers make a living without selling / nothing in stock? My opinion is that they wanted to bring their silver stock to zero, maybe they think the price will drop again abit lower next year, so they can replenish their stock cheaper. I'm waiting for then to add my next bunch coins. Aside of this, since it's near the end of the year, most German dealers reached the annual sales limits they are subject to due to their tax method choice. So they can't sell to foreign customers anymore, at least not without giving up their tax method.
Yes for sure they might have a vested interest. Or you could have missed the boat to stack silver before a new tax arrives.
Usually I also demand an "official" statement before believing something like this. Rumours say that http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_340/Sha...icationFile.pdf/2013-06-05-Beschluss-TOP5.pdf , Page 44, 12, Section 2 contains such an "official" statement, but unfortunately, the document is not written in Germen, but in Lawyerish. Maybe one aspect is also that it's easier to believe in taxes being increased than in taxes being reduced.... But in this case, ALL renowned dealers and many reputable news sites reported this, so I assume that it is true. One of the most well-known dealers (and as far as I know, the only official distributor of the Perth Mint in Germany), http://www.silber-corner.de/ , is out of silver coins with 10 Oz or 1 Kilo for several weeks now. Others are obviously short on these coins as well. However, from what I have read so far, this tax raise will not affect all coins equally: For coins from non-EU sources (particularly for Perth Mint coins), the dealers may be able to use the "Differenzbesteuerung" (literally: difference taxation), where they only have to pay VAT for the profit that they make by selling the coins - and since the profit for these coins is about 1%, the price may in the end only increase by 0.2%. Nevertheless, other coins - primarily Philharmonikers or Umicore 'Coin Bars' - will be affected by this. (And ... even IF the dealers can use the difference taxation, the fear of having to pay 19% may be helpful for boosting their sales ) BTW: You'll rarely find any 10Oz- or 1Kg silver bars at all in Germany, because the VAT on Silver Bars has already been 19% (only the Silver Coins had a 7% VAT). So one has to assume that due to this tax raise, some forms of silver bullion will disappear from the German markets sooner or later....
Are you kidding? Germany has enough of 1kg (and heavier) bars to pave a road. All the silver dealers there have them.
Bars without a currency on them are an easy story: full tax. It's for this reason that coins are more popular in this region. These bars are thus irrelevant to this topic.
Not really, after this changes they will be probably cheaper than coins. Actually they already are judging by the gold.de (price comparison site).
It's not a 'new' tax, it would be just explicitly excluding certain products (alike bullion silver coins) from the reduced tax rate. Like it is now, dealers interprete the specific law text in another way that the law text author may have intended. And since early 2011 I have read that 'missing the boat' at prices ranging from $50 > $20, why would this $19 one be the last boat? 2008's bottom was $9, average $15 and peak $21, and general prices today aren't twice 2008, so I think some lower bottom hits have enough chance to risk a wait, especially with my high silver/fiat ratio. Dealers spread alot stories, and their motive for it is to sell, at any price. It's said that the German story appears at 'renowned' dealers and 'reputable news sites', but ohwell, that was the case for all the stories I've read between early 2011 and today, and they just copypaste, everything traces back to a few sources from who I've encountered enough often repeated bogus stories to classify them as vested-interest misleaders. I'll wait for spot $2 lower than today. Then I'll buy again some. If the tax change does happen, then that lower spot will compensate for it anyway, so ohwell.
Of course the dealers have them in stock, and are offering them (sometimes on request). But due to the 19% VAT, they are not really popular. The current prices (e.g. those on gold.de) are a little bit difficult to judge: The high demand may cause some distortions here (at least the current prices for Kilo Kooks look ridiculously high...). In a few weeks, when the dust has settled, we'll see how the VAT really affects the prices, and ... how the prices affect the demand and supply (it's not always the other way around, presumably )
To all you stackers in Germany - welcome to 19% VAT on your future purchases of silver coins. We in the UK have enjoyed paying the government 20% VAT so welcome to the high tax EU silver stackers club my friends. As for estimating prices next year simply divide the current price by 1.07 then multiply it by 1.19. Alternatively take the current price and increase it by 11.2%. Now you know how us Brits feel. Then to make matters even worse go check out the dealers in Australia and the USA by looking at their website prices and weep !! Merry Christmas
Dealers in estonia are still 0% I believe for those interested and ship with VAT free charges. From what I can gather, you will not get charged anything once it reaches you, no VAT or customs charges.
The problem where Estonia is concerned the dealers put a high premium on the coins they sell so it is not worth the bother buying from Estonia. Also one dealer I contacted about a year ago said it would take 6 weeks to get coins to the UK. Total waste of time IMHO.
6 weeks, wow really. One i thought of using was like 10 days max. I would give 6 weeks a miss too. Out of interest who do you use?
I used to buy off Atkinsons and Guernsey mint now called bullion rock. I am at the moment buying only numismatics proofs etc. If I was actively buying bullion I'd chance bullion rock as you do get away with the VAT now and again, also UK border force have a big backlog at the moment and I have side stepped customs on my last 2 orders from outside the EU Just don't bank on it try a small order and see how you go.
Haha yeah i recently put an order in at Bullion rock and not paid the pre tax charge, so will shall see. Be nice to get away with VAT for once.
Bullion rock sell VAT free so should not charge you any taxes at all,if border force get hold of the package assuming you are buying silver,you will be hit with 20% Vat plus the 8 PO rip off. Good luck with it.
