Hi All I have had a PAMP 1kg bar go missing but I have the certificate. Is there a register that I can lay claim on the bar to prevent someone lawfully selling it onwards? Much appreciated. Mike
Hi, lost via Australia Post. In what I have learned in property law, if you register your interest in property you are higher up in the pecking order of claimants to the item. Others are put on notice that you are claiming an interest in the property. This only works if there is a registry - which is why I'm interested if people have come across one. Cheers Mike
Doubt there's any registry of any sort. And like oz copper pointed out, the certificate is not proof of ownership unfortunately.
I guess it's like saying that if I hold the certificate of ownership of a car it is not proof of ownership. However, I can put the world on notice that I contest any purported ownership of the car to which I hold a certificate of title if the car goes missing. If someone buys the car without checking any claims on the car, legally, that is their problem. This requires a vehicle registry so that claims to the car can be registered. Mike
No register. When I first started stacking I thought that's what the serials were for, cross checking them with some sort of offical database like we do with a VIN on the car. PAMP's own website stated they don't provide such a service. How was the bar sent?
Be aware that the buyer you sent it to may be lying about not receiving it. There are some bad people out there who, if they receive an item, will take advantage of buyer protection refund policies if you send items without tracking numbers.
Thanks, House. That is the info I am after. I currently have a claim in Aus Post. Okay, so I hereby declare ownership of the PAMP 1kg silver bar with serial number 057247. Please contact me if you come across this bar, I still own it, it was merely lost by a third party. I own it until I choose to dispose of it or declare that I am no longer the rightful owner. If you have the bar you are not its rightful owner, I am. Cheers Mike
For the benefit of the stacking community, how did you send the pamp bar? Did it come with any kind of coverage/insurance, tracking number or even signature on delivery?
Tracking, parcel post with signature. I only lodged the lost parcel claim today, and Aus Post sent an automated email that they will reply soon.
i agree , i do not see a certificate is proof of ownership i have and brought and sold pamp bars without certifcates the certificates get torn ,soiled or lost so what , no pamp could be sold without a certificate there is too many paranoid people out there now so no body will want to buy a pamp bar without certificates.
Oh so package was sent with bar and cert, person signs for it but claims only cert inside? I hope you get to the bottom of this mate but If the person signed for it (presumption), he would have agreed to the risk of it going missing.
I guess the cert is primarily an indicator of authenticity. I also agree it is not proof of ownership. However, if you have the cert you can show that it is on its face likely that you had something to do with the bar with a particular serial number - I have evidence to support my assertion that I have some interest in that particular bar that is identifiable. Try that with a PM bar - how can I show I had dealings with any particular PM bar? I remember my law professor gave the example that if you drop a $50 note on the street you continue to have a proprietary interest in it so long as in your mind you believe you have an interest in it - the moment you accept that the note is lost, you lose the proprietary interest in it. If you lose a book with your NAME in it, however, you continue to have an interest in the book because it can be identified as belonging to you. The bar having a serial number that matches my cert is probably sufficient evidence to defeat anyone's claim to the bar now that I have made it know that I declare a claim in the bar. Mike
After dealing with the customer, I am 100% satisfied that the customer is not to blame here. So I ask you do not question this further. It is an issue with the bar getting lost whilst it was within the custody of Aus Post. Hopefully they can help me find it.
