To be fair, if you think that 20yrs is too long a gap and makes the Bible unreliable, then let's make a similar comparison to other ancient manuscripts. Note the Time Gap between the date written and earliest copy/ies available, and the No. of Manuscripts: http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence Author Date Written Earliest Copy Time Gap No. of Manuscripts Accuracy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Plato 427-347 B.C. 900 A.D. 1200 yrs 7 ---- (can't be verified) Caesar 100-44 B.C. 900 A.D. 1000 10 ---- ( " " " ") Aristotle 384-322 B.C. 1100 A.D. 1400 49 ---- ( " " " ") Homer (Iliad) 900 B.C. 400 B.C. 500 yrs 643 95% Compare these documents (which no one really questions their authenticity) to the New Testament: Author Date Written Earliest Copy Time Gap No. of Manuscripts Accuracy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ New Testament 1st Cent. A.D. (50-100 A.D.) 2nd Cent. A.D.(c. 130 A.D. f.) less than 100 years 5,600 99.5% Also consider the following: - Notice that at the end of 'chinese whispers' we can go back to the original person to ask them what the original message was. In the same way, if within 20-50yrs there were false reports or stories starting to arise, then the early church members could go back to any of the multiple eye-witnesses that would've still been alive and verify the validity of these claims. - Back then, society had a much stronger emphasis on verbal/oratory communication rather than written/literary, as not everyone was privileged to have been schooled in reading and writing. So it could be said that recalling events via word-of-mouth was a valid form of evidence (especially when the original eye-witnesses could be contacted to confirm details). - Finally, even though there are no known NT manuscripts/fragments up until 50AD, that doesn't necessarily mean that the early church wasn't writing down the events that were occurring either as they happened, or not long after (eg. months or a few years after they happened). They didn't exactly have the means of preserving manuscripts like we have today, so it's most likely that any earlier manuscripts simply wore out over 100s of years of wear and tear. With that said, there's always the possibility that archaeologists may find fragments within that 20AD time frame, which only adds to the mountain of evidence already available. Let me end my $0.02 with this, since I really don't want GP to have to keep closing down topics due to them going on 'general discussion' tangents. I've done my own research and come to my own conclusions about the validity of the Bible. I offer the information above not to try to argue people into believing what I believe (which only frustrates everyone), but so that anyone who's sceptical but open can also do their own due diligence and come to their own conclusions as well. If anyone wants to discuss this topic further (or any other topic about God, Jesus, Christianity, etc), you can PM me with any genuine questions and I'll do my best to answer them. Otherwise, let's get back on topic about the Greek elections and what we know is coming.
I have nowhere else to discuss these issues, the christian forums does not have an open stance, they have a closed stance. So no matter where the discussion goes or discovers, the end must never change their point of view. I prefer public forums rather than 1 on 1, gets too confronting on these issues. As for the greek elections, I have put in my opinion multiple times (most likely in favour of market). The works of philosophers is just that, human philosophers, they do not have a crowd willing to go to war or die based on their philosophy, so no one really cares if it is accurate or if he was bsing his whole way through. Religion however unites people under one banner and it can move massive amounts of people under one banner. A real life example is the crusade, Republican conservative mega churches, the jihadis, etc. In USA, the conservatives attempts to remove evolution from science and inserts creationism. Secular world is being influenced heavily by the religious world. So, if the divine mandate can be reduced to human mandate or just a gross misinterpretation, it will not cause world peace, but certainly can lessen the urgency to act in extremes. I am not out to disprove the bible. I respect the religion. But thing is there is so much divine emphasis that it ignores the human touch. What I am arguing is that there is a lot of human touch (not just in writing it) in the Bible. Human touch, if you want to look at history is .... often ugly. Hell, the current economic crisis is a result of plenty of human touch.
Woah..... things are really heating up.....Merkel IS NOT negotiable with any more bailouts..... Oh this is exciting! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/9335800/Greece-bailout-not-negotiable-says-Angela-Merkel.html
Thanks for that link I'm reading through the comments section now. It seems a lot of people are awake to the fact that 1) it's not "the Greek people" who borrowed the money and 2) lending money comes with risk
Just like in the bible, after the dot.com crash we has 7 years of good economic grows, but we saved nothing, only borrowed even more. We are now in the next 7 years of hardship bottoming out late 2015.
Please no more mention of bibles and religion.. It's a metals forum, not some place for people to go on about their invisible friends.
And another on Merkel... She is standing strong..... It's great that she is really making them understand the situtauion THEY created for themselves by dodging taxes etc for so many years... http://www.itv.com/news/2012-06-17/merkel-warns-greek-voters-over-austerity-measures/
You can look the bible religiously, but also as historical human behaviour, from which we can learn a lot even today
I've exceeded my bandwidth for the month and despite going on the "unlimited" plan my bandwidth is still shaped So I'd be all over posting a IBFTL gif but
Just read a news.com article....voting started at 4am GreekMT..... Results should be in at 6.30 GMT apparently which is approx 2.30am AEST here for us...... Gonna be a loooooong night..... I'm fricken excited!!!!!!!!!!!
news.com.au could tell me that the suns coming up tomorrow and I'd seek out confirmation from a reputable source
