Hi, Does anyone know the mintage for the series 2 5oz tiger's? I bought a handful of these when they were available because I remember reading that the mintage was expected to be low. I'm thinking about selling these on the bay and using the money to pick up some bullion while its cheap. I cannot find the mintage of these coins on the Perth website and am wondering if I'm better off to hold onto these a little longer thinking that if the mintage on these is low, that the price might shoot up . thanks
This is where the mintages are published. The 2010 figures will be released some time before the end of the year as far as I know. http://www.perthmint.com.au//docume...r_Silver_Bullion_Series_Two_2008_-_2009_1.pdf
Given the tiger has been out of production for over a year you'd think the mint could be a little more timely in their release of information
Even the rabbit mintage can be released now. I think is more about someone has to find the time to make the update than waiting for a specific magical time.
Yeah the 5oz will interest me too. Picked one of them up before the Dragon mania for $250, so am thinking it could have increased since.
Got mine for 165. Doesn't the mint have computers? push a button see how many were sold ! The us mint release their ase sales monthly so don't understand how the Perth mint can be so utterly useless on a regular basis
I live in hope that one day they will surprise me and become barely competent.... Still waiting for that day
thanks for all of the responses guys! I bought my 5ozers from Gainsville when they were available a couple of years back. I paid about 100 a piece so either way, I think I'll make a nice profit on them.
I remember Ron Currie saying that the responsibility for publishing mintages is on one person (can't remember who he named but they were at the Perth Dragon meet). That person needs to correlate information from three independent systems (we all know that the mint has independent sections for sales) and that some of the data is not computerised. It is also not their sole responsibility so it's probably one of those jobs that gets pushed down the list when something more pressing happens. I would imagine that the numbers probably need to be independently audited also as the coins are legal tender the publishing of mintage numbers would have some significance for some government department somewhere.
The Perth Mint just can not make legal tender by the millions and keep their record on sticky notes. They have to pay royalties to the federal government.
I don't think they pay royalties depending on how many coins are minted (this may be the case - I'm not certain of that). I do know that the mint is actually run as a completely independent organisation with the government being the shareholder so the royalties they pay back to the government are more like dividends on profits for holding shares. The mint was also revamped in the 80s (I think the 80s - maybe it was the 70s) with a mandate to expand sales to overseas markets which is why the overseas markets are a priority. I guess the process would be that where there is no mintage limit the coins would be 'minted to order' so to speak. It would be the sales figures that would be all important in this case as the differnence between sales and numbers minted would have to be accounted for as either being re-melted or sitting in a vault somewhere. As I said previously these figures would probably have to be audited (maybe independently audited as a requirement but I'm not sure about that) which would require a stock take, physical count and then correlation of information from multiple systems. This is extremelly time consuming and takes months in a private sector company audit. Don't get me wrong - I think the Perth Mints systems are in DRASTIC need of upgrading (and streamliming) but I'm often amazed by peoples hostility towards the Perth Mint. I suppose I am just not exposed to that side of it as I don't need to use the internet and telephone to place orders at peak times so all of my experiences (walk in and seeing people) are actually very positive. A very good example of the hostility I mentioned is the situation that has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum but to do with the limited mintage allocations of the last release. I remember reading a large number of posts where people were talking about how the mint should look after Australians and Australian dealers first. And also how they should do something to make sure international dealers (like Apmex) don't get all of the coins and then charge huge premiums for them. This situation has played out exactly like everyone thought it would. Apmex has a large number, it would seem they have sent all of the good coins off to be graded so they can charge even more for them and the rest are being sold at about $100 a coin. Again, don't get me wrong - I think that sucks and I agree that I would have liked those coins to stay in Australian hands. My point is that the Perth Mint is in an extremelly difficult situation here. They are an organisation set-up and mandated to increase sales of PMs to overseas markets. Keeping all of these coins in Australia is not what they are set-up to do. They also have a long standing policy (I discussed this with the marketing team there) of having zero interference in the secondary market for their products. This was put in place early on when there were releases that were doing poorly in the secondary market and the mint discussed buying back products at cost to ensure price stability and maintain sales of new products. It was decided that the mint would allow the market to set the price (up or down) - which is the free market and what a huge number of stackers are very big on. I agree with this policy so what are they to do? Wow - that turned into a novel and the above is just my thoughts and observations. Sorry for the massive thread hijack / deviation but it would be good to have a proper discussion about these issues (without it turning into "the Perth mint is shit because . . ") so that as a community we can say how we want things to go in the future. Maybe if what we say here is constructuve and good debate the arguments may make it to a board room discussion there. Ron is a member here after all and I'm sure reads a lot of what is said here
I still don't understand why its so difficult to add up the "quantity" section on all the invoices and get a total. Okay, they have to do that on three different systems but that just means they have three sub-totals that need to be added together to get the total number. Most businesses are able to search their records and run a query like Product Code [ABC001], Date range [dd/mm/yy-dd/mm/yy], Sales, GO and get a figure in less than 5 seconds. I was under the impression that sales for one design stop as soon as the next design is released, so if that's right they shouldn't have a pile of stock sitting in a vault somewhere that's still available for sale. Or if they do, then assume it will be sold, count it as such and just note down that it hasn't been paid for yet.
Perth Mint pays millions in Royalty to the Federal Government, and not to the Western Australian State Government. So this is a tax on state government by the federal government and not a dividend to the shareholder. Since bullion coins are made to demand all they need to do is add up all the orders, and match it up with the actual production runs against sales and left overs in inventories. The company accounting software should give that information instantly. This is essential information for any company to be at hand instantly on demand. This is not about good intention but sloppiness, this about to run a business on day to day basis and also to stop tax cheating, corruptions or theft. The accountant knows exactly what is in stock. Stocktaking is not about to find out what is there, but to check it if still there.
It's pathetic. The us mint pumps out 6 million plus ase's a month and provides a to the coin mintage for the month... The Perth mint on the otherhand..... Well....
Just so you know, they updated the bullion mintage to include the 2010 year coins. http://www.perthmint.com.au/investment-bullion-bars-and-coins-mintages.aspx
