How many 1 oz silver american or aussie coins within the last 15 years are selling for over 80 times spot ??? ZERO How many 1 oz pandas ??? a few
Indeed, I'm sure an index of 20 Australian coins with mintages of less than 2000, minted within the last 30years, would demonstrate a similar curve, just not on a identically profitable level. Please understand, this is not a disparaging remark against Australian coins. Panda profitability over the past 30years has been incredibly amazing (especially in the last few years). This does not mean that Australian coins are not profitable. I too have a relatively large collection of Australian coins that have done very very well... but nothing in my collection so far has come close to the performance of the Pandas.
yennus as I stated earlier ... my intention is not to badmouth australian, american or canadian coins but seriously they are crap compared to what the silver, gold and platinum pandas have exponentially grown in value. I'm just being honest and not wanting to offend anyone at all but the truth must be told. I mean I have allegiance to my country but not its crappy modern coins. just out of curiosity ... what are some of the most valuable silver 1 oz australian coins minted since 1982? and how about the most valuable 1 oz gold australian coins? i would like to research them myself ...
Thanks comeaux, I know you aren't disparaging any coins. I agree with your position that few coins in the last 30years can match the profitability of the Pandas. Unfortunately there are lot of people that are very sensitive towards our position on Pandas. So I often suppress my enthusiasm to be a bit more accommodating towards those who don't yet appreciate the profitability of the Pandas, lest I cause unnecessary offense (... and yet I still often fail). Thank you so much for sharing your honest thoughts, and desiring not to offend anyone.
Very impressive. I have a NGC database, two actually, one for my Roos and one for everything else. I don't know what 'score' means though. Also do you think I've wasted my money buying 69s? I plan on getting a 2010 70 and a 2011, but not others. What is your opinion of the 69s? I know there's no visual difference and i know they won't appreciate like the 70s, but they will appreciate...won't they? Hope so
hello 940paltx ... 69's are very much considered investment grade ... try buying a 2000 mirror, micro or serif LD in MS69 Then come back and ask me if there is "appreciation" for them ... Look at that list of 69's and put a calculator to it ... the appreciation is most definately there as well as demand
Thanks for the responses, il get back to the thread with further questions either tonite or tmrw ( i need more time )
Me again, Not sure what to say really. And yeah i did mean that chart yennys. Also it was mentioned earlier that some of the coins were melted or used up in jewellery so that the population is much much lower - i disagree with this. Modern Chinese with relatively lower mintages would have been issued by the mint on a premium over spot. So, who in their right mind would melt it? - you can find cheaper scrap or other cheaper pandas for melting and not the lower mintage coins - People who bought lower mintage coins BY DEFAULT ( their higher price ) know what they are doing and that they can get/buy cheaper source of metal for melting. I doubt that they would have been used in jewellery either - can you google me an image of rarer Pandas as jewellery? I do agree that Chinese Modern coins are in higher demand than Australian or probably most of the other countries new issues as well. I just used Australia as an example. The chart that i have seen so many times here on SS ( the one that shows stellar performance of the Pandas over gold and silver ) is 90% about LOW MINTAGE VS PLENTIFUL MINTAGE - so would be same if you were to track lower mintage coins from any other country, any other metal too. And today is the first time that i have learned that the chart is of coins which have mintages LOWER than 2000! Maybe that information was in plain sight earlier too, but i did not notice it. and 99% of numismatics is in actuality a LOW MINTAGE PLAY.
Hi tamo42, nah, it's not published anywhere yet. I mainly use it at the monthly presentations though. I'm hoping one day I might be able to make it into an E-book or something. E.g. Panda Man's Profitable Guide to Purchasing Pandas. Here is a small chart of the Panda to ASE fiat increase that one would have realized. a) find out what the prices of Pandas were when they released (e.g. Chat to the dealers or collectors, CCF, LBC, etc). b) find out the value of the Pandas today. c) find out what the prices of ASE's were when they were released. d) find out the value of the ASE's today. The results should look something similar to this:
This thread is off track, but the questions are interesting... I'll create a separate post for this question.
List #96 is up for those who are looking for graded Chinese coins: http://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?topic=4802.0
Just looked at your list of eBay Pandas... A lot of US eBay sellers don't ship out of the US, kinda sucks haha. But damn there's a LOT of pandas in the states, me jealous
Yes, there are many who are totally paranoid about shipping overseas. They don't seem to realize how many buyers they are cutting out. But then there are lots who will ship anywhere too.
Professor Huang has shown through the Shanghai Mint records that large quantities of modern Chinese coins minted up through 2002 have been melted by the Mint itself, presumably because they didn't sell. For some of the large sizes the majority of the mintage may have been melted. Besides the Mint, who in their right mind would melt these? Coin dealers and hoarders all melted coins whenever they were afraid a drop in gold or platinum's prices might saddle them with a loss while the coins sat on their shelves. I know of one coin with a mintage of 300 of which probably around 200 were melted for this reason. As for jewelry usage, I used to have a 1982 Panda catalog from the Chinese Mint that showed practically nothing but Pandas set as jewelry. Jewelry is one of the major markets for Panda coins. Back in the eighties people used to line up to buy Panda jewelry before Christmas. Some of the more valuable Pandas are the little 1/20 oz. platinum coins. If you can find one there is a very good chance it will have marks on it to show it was once used in jewelry. The story of modern Chinese coinage confounds expectations and takes unpredictable twists and turns. That is part of what makes it so interesting and, frequently, profitable. Best wishes, Peter Anthony http://www.pandacollector.com
As always ... thanks for you contributions Peter Here is my wife's 2011 Mothers Day present 1983 (1/10 oz) Gold Panda earrings & 2011 (1/4 oz) Gold Panda necklace. All of these coins were in OMP. The estimated population of 14,000 of these 1983 1/10's just got lowered to 13,998 ! Not to mention how many others are in jewelry as well. I recently saw a gold bracelet on ebay with several of these 1983's on it. The 1983's are her birthday year and the 2011 mom and baby panda she loves !
HAhaha... thanks for sharing the pics Comeaux... My wife is requesting a similar gift of Pandas turned into jewelry after seeing your pics I'm glad you didn't show a 12oz Gold Panda necklace eheheheh
