FFS - Stack PMS and Firetruck the Numi's

FFS

In the "Good ole Days" we cared more about the ounces than Numismatic potential. But first let me start from the start.


I ask you "Why are YOU buying precious metals?"

Personally I'm in it to preserve my purchasing power. Gold at $10k no-one is going to give a flying firetruck that my 1/4 ounce is series I Lunar Tiger. NO-ONE is going to pay a premium at $10k for a tiger they will pay the premium for the sub ounce and they will pay a premium to get the Firetruck out of fiat. NO PREMIUM FOR COLLECTABLE


If you are thinking that Fiat will do OK then speculating on numismatics may pay off.

I'll be honest here. I honestly thought that the Perth Mint Clown Fish was a sure thing. It wasn't. Thankfully I'm a small fish in an ocean. So my "investment' was small. I got out of that fiasco with my initial investment. Actually that's not right. I got out of that "investment" with the knowledge that SPOT is KING for the average punter. Numi's is for the experts. I'm not an expert but I do know one thing. Gold at $10k an ounce -----> I want to be holding as many ounces that are easily disposable (Krugerrands, AGE, Perth Mint etc) as possible. ditto for silver. Don't dick around with shite that will be questionable. Numismatics are for FUN. If you KNOW what you are doing the they are for PROFIT as well. If you don't know what you are doing then they are strictly for FUN.


I can not stress enough - if you believe that PM's are headed for the MOON then pay as small a premium as possible but still pay one for stuff that is instantly recognisable. If I were buying in a panic and had the choice between a Panda and a Kruger which do you think I would buy?

 

I'd buy the Panda if same price

But I see your point and completely agree.

 

ok

 

When I see the "thanks" under my post I'll believe you

 

Nugget, I threw up a post a while ago - same kind of "moral to the story" as your post.

For what it's worth, I happen to agree with you, but I'm stacking for SHTF - I will almost always look to extract the most number of ounces from my fiat, provided the item is sold by someone I trust, or have implied trust in, and it's in a readily recognisable format.

In my mind, folks are buying PM's for one of three "main" reasons: (1) You believe SHTF soon, (2) You aren't sure if SHTF, but you do believe in PM's ability to retain wealth over time, or (3) You believe all will be right in the world of fiat currencies & debt, and want to have some enjoyment from the Numi side of PM's, together (perhaps) with some asset diversification.

For those that are newer to PM stacking in general, this seems a good a time as any to remind people to sit down, and have a good think about what it is that *YOU* believe, and why *YOU* are here/stacking. Advice or plans or ideas from any given person (on these forums, or in general on the 'net) are all worthwhile to read, absorb, and consider in terms of *YOUR* personal beliefs.

Whatever you do - do not lose sight of what you set out to do and achieve - you began buying PM's for a reason, and I think - especially with a lot of talk on forums like this, it may be easy for some to be distracted from their original goals.

 

I need this to be my home page when I log into SS and online bullion retailers. I keep getting sucked into numi stuff. I try to come to my senses but the lure of pandas and such as investments keep pulling me back in.
I just took delivery of a MS69 1996 1oz Proof panda FFS!

Thanks for being the voice of reason nugget. Will try to keep this in mind

Dan

 

I don't believe in SHTF scenario
I don't believe in premium coins
If I can pick up a premium coin & flip it for a profit
I will
It's all about weight for me

 

For sure you should be well aware of Numi's possibility. I mean, walk into a Post office and see Dragon Type Set at cost price you'd be all over it to flip it.

However great deals don't occur that often. The safest option, again I stress IMHO, is to focus on SPOT and recognisability. Paying spot for some shite that people shun isn't cool. Paying well over spot for a "dragon" is only cool if are buying for a collection or honestly believe that Numi's is where it's at and this time it's different (despite thousands of years suggesting otherwise) and FIAT will be just fine. More power to you.

I'm a firm believe of keeping it simple.


Oh noes. AUD is worthless. US has imploded and the OWS movement has grown balls and actually used their second amendment rights. Thank firetruck I have PM's. What's that? You don't care that I paid 5x spot for this uber rare lion fish? Damn I wish I'd stacked Buff's


LOL

I've been drinking BTW

Yeah it's Tuesday but I'm an adult and I'm aware of the consequences (sex with the missus)

Peace

 

Good post nugget . A reminder not to get sucked into the hype .For me Its the ounces that count in the end .

 

I am sure we have had this conversation before you know!

Remember, it's not just about what you believe, it's also about what your potential buyer believes.

If your buyer believes SHTF then you can sell them a ton of the most dirty disgusting and ugly pre dec that no one else would touch.

If your buyer believes that Dragons are going to double in price then you can just keep loading them up.

If your buyer believes that fiat currencies are doomed and they have to save their hard earned cash then you can sell them lumps of metal.

You need to buy your junk pre dec off of numismatists who think it is worthless, you need to buy your dragons off people who think the world is going to collapse and take the premiums with them.

And above all, diversify!

...and quit drinking on a Tuesday nght, have some dignity man!

 

Spot on Nugget. In the end it'll be the amount of ounces you can acquire.

I know its fun collecting different designs, but if you plan on selling your gold and silver one day, whats the point of paying massive premiums for these numi pieces when you're going to sell them eventually.

Seems pointless to me.

I just buy bars.


Ah well who am I to judge, just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks for your thoughts Nugget. I do agree in relation to some points, but I humbly disagree on others.

Yes, some numi coins may do poorly in the future ... but I believe some numis (i.e. Pandas) will do spectacularly well.

Why am I in precious metals? I want an investment that will perform profitably not only if/when the SHTF, but also when times are good and bad.

I try to remember this:
1. Cash is trash. If you hold cash, you are likely to lose your purchasing power.
2. Bullion is stable. If you hold bullion (coins and bars), you are likely to preserve your purchasing power.
3. Pandas are profitable. If you hold Pandas, you are likely to increase your purchasing power.

Here are some real life examples:
1. Cash is trash:
A 1967 50cent piece would buy you lunch and a drink in 1967... In 2011, that 50cent piece will probably get you only a soft serve. (A decline in purchasing power)

Will Cash protect you from losing your purchasing power? Not likely.
Will cash increase your purchasing power? Not likely.

2. Bullion is stable:
A 1966 50cent piece would buy you lunch and a drink in 1966... In 2011, that 50cent piece will still afford you lunch and a drink. (A preservation in purchasing power)

Will bullion protect you from losing purchasing power? Very likely.
Will bullion increase your purchasing power? Probably not...

3. Pandas are profitable:
A 1989 10yuan Panda would buy you breakfast, lunch and dinner in 1989... In 2011, that 1989 Panda will afford you groceries for a week. (A growth in purchasing power).

Will Pandas protect you from losing purchasing power? Very likely.
Will Pandas increase your purchasing power? Probably.

... Historical situation ...
Since 2001, if you had been stacking pure bullion coins/bars, your net gain has not increased very much. Yes, in fiat terms, you have likely increased your fiat by 6x. But 100x 1oz silver bullion rounds purchased in 2001 are still only worth 100x 1oz silver bullion rounds in 2011 (no real appreciation).

Since 2001, if you had been stacking Pandas, your net gain would have increased by a lot. Indeed, in fiat terms, you have increased your cash by 20x. Also 100x 2001 1oz Silver Pandas would be worth over 300x 1oz silver bullion rounds (3x real appreciation).

A person that has been stacking Pandas for the last few years is in a much better position to be prepared for when the SHTF since they have increased their real purchasing power over the last few years.

... Real life numi situation ...
In 2007, the standard 2000 Frosted Panda was valued at 880RMB (approx. $146). Today it is valued at over $500 (even more for NGC coins). Growth of 3.42 times.
In 2007, the standard ASE was about $18. Today it is valued about $39. Growth of 2.16 times.
So yes, the numi Panda coins have appreciated faster than spot and standard bullion, and in my view will continue to. There are many good sources to read up on the profitability of Pandas, Peter Anthony's (Panda Collector) Pricepedia, and Tamo42's Investment Lists.

Question:
If I were in a panic and were given a choice between a Kruger and a Panda which would I buy? I would go the Panda because Australia is situated nearer to Asia than Africa, plus the Panda is 999 pure.

 

It's relative isn't it... I bought a couple of 1oz coloured proof dragons at the post office yesterday for $112. Could flip them tonight on ebay for $150... imo it's the buyer who would be paying the massive premium, not myself. It's fun to allocate a certain % of your silver portfolio to numis, however if it's 100% I'd say look into the golden rule (deversify)

Inception!


EDIT: Pretty much what everyone above has said...

 

numis better than bullion coins, bullion coins better than bullion bars, bullion bars better than saving money in bank. but you need make sure your cash flowing all the time as u cannot eat silver stuff.

 

I try to profit from numis and turn the profit to bullion

 

Agree completely nugget. I had a pretty big spit over the dragon release as you may remember and recall distinctly the core ideology that was the average SS member before ag broke $20

This was always going to happen mate when silver starting making serious moves which has lead to SS's current paradigm shift

*shrugs*

I am still plodding along the same as much of the old guard is and appart from the odd comment largely stay out of the debate

You know the mindset of SS has changed and I doubt that pointing out the obvious will alter it anyway

For the record, my last half a dozen purchases have been fractional silver coins, bullion silver and gold bars - I still have zero dragons

Nuff said

 

NoFink rong wifa few drinlks at nighhhtime.

 

Well that's bloody great. I bought a dozen of these damn red back spiders a couple of years ago and I'm still waiting for spot to go up to $150 so i can get my money back!
Guess I'll just have to wait

 

What ever happened to being 100% GOLD ?

for shame