There's nothing racist about not liking the design but when someone takes issue with the race (or features specific to a race) of Liberty for no good reason, then the red flags must be raised. .
It's one thing to assert that an American Liberty coin design is bad because the design or sculpt is executed poorly. It's a totally different thing to assert that an American Liberty coin design is bad because it's politically correct in showing someone who just happens to have a different skin pigmentation or anatomical features not consistent with a caucasian person. Case in point: there are many different Barack Obama coins/rounds that have been produced over the years, some with a design poorly executed (the image bears little likeness to Obama), some with a design well made (the image bears a good amount of likeness to Obama). There's nothing wrong with stating a coin is bad because of a poor design. But if your position is that a coin is bad because the individual that's depicted isn't caucasian or that because a black person is depicted on an American Liberty coin then this must mean the only reason for that choice is political correctness, then red flags must be raised. There's some people who think Obama's a bad president because he's black....to them, probably all coins depicting Obama are bad because of his race. Anyway, for the rest of is, the following 3 coins/rounds seem inarguably to be poor designs. There's nothing racist in asserting that one doesn't like these coins because of the poor design: The following 3 designs seem to be good designs (Obama's likeness is captured fairly accurately): .
The way the term "racist" is bandied about today is pretty disgusting. Anyone who says anything negative about any issue that involves something that is based on or centers around folks who are non white is called a racist. Just like people called Obama's critics racist, even Obama used the race card to say why people didn't like his ideas because of his race. I supported Obama in election 1, but because I saw what he was about and didn't like most of his policies (continued war in mid east that expanded under him, letting in rampant illegals, anti guns, later on obamacare etc), I guess I am a racist per the common theme used by lefty libs today? The fact that the US Mint has said it will feature exclusively non white females (portrayed as lady liberty) on a particular coin can be a turn off in and of itself for some based on the clear politics behind it, irrespective of the coin's design. That doesn't mean those people are RACISTS. Just because someone isn't a lefty lib doesn't mean that person is racist. I am sure the lefty libs will not say that putting only non whites on a coin is racist though, which it clearly is, since the choice of who to put on the coin is based on race or heritage and in this case excludes caucasion people intentionally. Isn't that racist? Here is a line from the below article: "Later coins will portray Liberty as Asian-American, Hispanic-American, Indian-American, and more". Reverse racism is still racism. If the US Mint says "we're going to make a coin and put a black female on it", and someone says, "I'm not buying that coin if a black is on it", that person can safely be called a racist. However, if the US Mint says, "we're going to make a series of coins and use ladies liberty of heritages and races other than caucasion", and someone says, "I'm not buying it because the idea behind it is anti American since it is discriminatory and racist (or too PC, etc)", that does NOT mean said person is a racist. That person simply is reacting towards progressive political views behind the coin's creation. Note: the mint never said they're not using caucasions specifically, but did name races/heritages that are all non white for future coins. So I believe the inference is just. PS I think the design on the coin is nice but it reminds me a bit of first spouse coins which I don't really like all that much. http://fortune.com/2017/01/13/us-mint-lady-liberty-coin/ Just my opinion. Jim
Another coin journal reporting on the unveiling of the 2017 Amer. Liberty gold coin: http://news.coinupdate.com/mint-unveils-2017-american-liberty-hr-gold-coin/ As for racist remarks, there certainly appear to be some made by some people who have commented in various online venues - in spite of the fact that many Left Wingers do in fact use the term inappropriately. But to throw red herrings out by denouncing Obama is really a terrible defense for some of the racist-sounding comments that are out there in at least 1 of the links I provided (that I've read). That a coin series will depict all white men is not necessarily indicative of a racist attitude in the same way that a coin series that depicts all non-white women isn't indicative of a racist attitude. It's the comments made by some that I see as coming across as racist. Jim, set aside this current coin controversy.......do you think that racist attitudes can't be held by some people who buy precious metals or coins? .
A lot of convoluted attempts to deny a blatantly racist dynamic in this argument. This design is the very opposite of politically correct... it doesn't take a safe, non-offensive path, but instead the design can be considered quite brave and mould-breaking. If people get offended and are frothing at the mouth then it is guaranteed a place in history as one of the great artistic coin designs. No wishy washy pandering to redneck racists here. I congratulate them! Well done.
To some extent, I understand the blanket defensiveness against the claims of a (likely) racist attitude held by some who've chimed in on any of the various online forums/blogs in which this coin is being discussed (due to some of the current political rhetoric thrown around by certain groups in the U.S. for political reasons).....but it would be best if everyone could differentiate between irrational, politically motivated accusations of racism (the kinds thrown around by Left Wingers) and actual racist attitudes or tones that are sometimes made in online forums/blogs where coins and precious metals are discussed. I don't see the world in black & white in the sense that I don't think that everyone who disapproves of a black person depicted on a coin is necessarily a racist but at the same time, I don't think that no one can be a racist who objects to a black person's likeness appearing on a coin. .
It's just a coin but people are lashing out like a fundamentalist Christian who just discovered their daughter is marrying a transgender African-American member of Hillary Clinton's campaign staff. They need to just move on... there are more important things to get worked up about. ___
It's telling that other coin designs that could be considered crap don't generate this level of vitriole.
Cool design. I'll be waiting for a photo of an actual production coin before deciding if I'll buy some. Only 1 if it's only in gold, perhaps more in silver
Let's hope they are easily available in Australia. It may be a let-down in real life but if it is close to the illustration then I'll get one too.
I don't like the design at all, it is only marginally better than equally ugly Morgan or the chubby queen. But it could be key date so I might try this get a few for my grand kids, not that I have any at the moment lol.
Funny to see so much defensiveness here on the subject of race.. Objecting to a coin series depicting non-white subjects may not be a guarantee of racist attitudes, but it sure is consistent with them. It is a lot more cogent to describe this opposition (purely on the grounds of race) as racist than it is to accuse the Mint of racism for making a nontraditional design choice. It may provoke a few intolerant types, but it is most definitely not a divisive move. If anything, it is being done to promote healing and inclusiveness, and the choice of a black woman for the first coin could be seen as an important symbolic gesture, acknowledging the liberty denied the first black Americans. Trying to turn it around and somehow make white people victims of racism here is disingenuous in the extreme and downright insulting. It is the same kind of bad-faith logic that some of my work colleagues use to justify their racist attitudes on the grounds that Aboriginal Australians have it so easy, and they wish they could be Aboriginal and enjoy the same purported privileges. No, you do not wish that. You would not want to live a week in their shoes and you know it - but it is easy to spout garbage like that from a position of genuine middle-aged white male privilege. Are white males the source of all evil? Of course not, it would be idiotic to suggest that. But whites playing the race card in this debate? That's pathetic, dishonest and desperate.
Absolutely spot on with everything you'd written. I really appreciate your contribution and clarity of expression. As an open-minded, white, independent (neither political Left nor Right), male, I do personally take offense at some of the rhetoric of the Left in the US and in particular, the SJW faction of the Left. But for someone to claim that the design of this gold coin is a matter of political correctness clearly smacks of a racist attitude. I just find it too hard to believe that someone who utters such a thing is that woefully ignorant to believe such a nonsensical claim....in a country as racially diverse as the U.S. is, political correctness has nothing to do with the choosing of a black woman to represent Liberty.....if anything, in 2017, it probably should be seen as the most obvious choice. There was a time when racist people wore their racist attitudes on their sleeve in the U.S. Today, racist attitudes certainly do exist but the wearing it on their sleeve has changed dramatically. So the racist attitude comes out in a veiled format or what is sometimes called "code". No matter that it's called and no matter how diffused the racism is, the attitude is just as ugly now as it was yesteryear. Those who utter "political correctness" really need to do some serious introspection. .
Wow, really impossible to have any type of intellectual debate here without be personally attacked (called racist in this case) by the hoards of progressives that post here. Not even worth trying to argue against this bullshit. Too bad nobody else here ever has the balls to vigorously challenge the status quo lefties on this board but me and southenrcross (maybe one or two others, I can't remember them now though). Often I will jump into a "debate" where I really don't have a strong feeling about the issue one way or the other, but since nobody else will challenge the libs , I take on the role of devil's advocate. Each time the lefties turn their sights on me to attack instead of forming articulable arguments against what I say. The US courts struck down affirmative action (quotas and such) because of their inherent racist and unfair nature. Everything I said in my original post on this is technically correct under the law, whether or not you like it or agree with it is irrelevant. Trying to rationalize similar behavior by the Mint by saying "you never walked a day in their shoes, etc," is a specious argument. Also, this is not about ONE COIN MMISSINGLINK it's the series that from the article is INTENTIONALLY omitting certain caucasion heritages from being lady liberty. This may seem like a trivial thing to a lib (and to me even), but trying to say it doesn't exist is lying. And you spinning this to make it look like any objection is to the one coin itself and not a whole coin series designed to intentionally omit any caucasions is a form of intellectual dishonesty, which you display often like you did in the Clinton v. Trump thread, remember that? PS You lefties wonder why Americans voted for Trump and rejected Clinton (and thus obummer thru her), it is because we don't want our country being run by lefties who at the highest levels show the same propensities and tactics of you lower level lefties that post here. Thru our MSM and such we see the same things being done to folks who talk against the progressive lib platforms day after day. They personally attack, boycott a company, and try to destroy people they simply disagree with on principles and ideas. Truly they are about "inclusion" and "acceptance" as they always preach about, but only if you agree with them. The left won't know what to do when their baseless claims of "racist", etc, lose their effect on the sheep when used to try and silence dissenting opinions. Progressive are exactly like the bible thumpers but at the other end of the spectrum. You all have your dogma and demand strict obedience and adherence to the "rules" your leaders created, and abhor any differing views, just like the bible thumpers- only the bible folks aren't as nasty and mean as progressive libs. I've finally reached my point. I am done here it's no longer fun or intellectually stimulating. Lefties won, I lost. Looking forward to Trump soon. Just my opinion. Jim
Jeez Jim, do you really mean it this time? Because you spit the dummy and threaten to leave the forum every time someone disagrees with you. Honestly, by now it's just tedious. How difficult it must be for you to be exposed to ideas you don't agree with, poor little snowflake. If you think the pinko poofter treehugging cabal is a problem on this forum, you really should get out more. This ain't no Stalinist stronghold, but if you really can't handle it, click the little 'x' on the top of the window and leave us all in peace. You attack, and attack, and abuse, and stereotype anyone who challenges your small-minded, intolerant attitudes - but run home to mummy when exposed to anything like the same. 'Intellectual debate' my hairy arse! So why not piss off? Your hypocrisy won't be missed.
Jim, you really win the cake for playing the non-victim victim card. I have criticized wacky Left ideology more than you can ever dream of in your wettest fantasies....so please stop pretending that you are some lone gladiator fighting all by yourself against bad ideas.....you are anything but that. All you are ever doing with those sorts of wacky rants is swinging at the straw man you have erected. The fact that I am critical of your occasional really bad or dangerous thinking doesn't in any way, shape, or form mean that I am politically Left....I am not at all. It just means that you are unwilling to accept criticism for your really poor thinking. That's a you deficit. As for your specious argument that unless a Liberty coin series has a white woman depicted, then it's motivated by racism or political correctness, that is just completely an absurd notion you hold. You saying something as nutty as that gives me the impression that you must be totally joking.....because it's that ludicrous of an assertion you make. But I think you are actually serious when you write bizarre things such as that. Do you live under a rock, Jim???? Do you ever get out of your tiny little steel bunker and into the real world???? Because if you did, you just might notice that there are many, many, many women in our country who symbolize the spirit of Liberty in every possible way.....women who are not white but of a wide array of ethnic backgrounds and of non Eurocentric cultural heritage ....far too many to delineate here and far too many to depict each and every one in a coin series that will probably consist of a tiny handful of coins at most. Finally, as for your illogical rants about Clinton and Trump, I know that you are a Trump worshiper extraordinaire......but for the one thousanth time, just because someone isn't a Trump worshiper, doesn't mean they think Clinton would have made a good president. I certainly never thought so and my write-in vote on November 8th is testament to this. I laugh at your ridiculous political comments in the same way I would laugh at a 2 year old's gobbledygook ramblings on politics. .
Liberty has been portrayed as a Native American woman for decades going back to the Indian gold coins minted before 1933 and the modern Sacajawea/Native American dollars. Did anyone ever complain that those designs were politically motivated or pc? Or say they were fugly, disgusting (even the phrase "keep it white") and similar comments that I have seen on every single forum where the 2017 Liberty coin has been discussed? I understand most people like the Indian designs, and some argue that even today the critics of black Liberty are a minority and that most collectors like the black Liberty, but my point is why does a black Liberty arouse such negative passion that a Native one does not? To argue race is not a part of that is absurd.
