ZH: One Very Strange Use For Silver Coins

Discussion in 'Silver' started by thatguy, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-04/guest-post-one-very-strange-use-silver-coins
    mmmm Hummers :)
     
  2. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    So - how does the car dealer report the $25k cheque? Proceeds from the vehicle sale? Or "investment profit" in the business? Or did he sell himself the quarters and then privately sell them to the coin dealer, making it a capital gain?
     
  3. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    Good question... my answer, his problem :D . Could always make a wager... "I bet that you $25k that you will not sell me this car for $1.5k", then he could report it as a windfall?
     
  4. steve.rsa

    steve.rsa Member Silver Stacker

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    "Well, I went to the casino with this bag of quarters this guy bought in...."
     
  5. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I assume the guy with the quarters had to buy them off someone, unless he found $25,000 worth of silver in his piggy bank or has been hoarding quarters since before 1964.

    It does go to show you that no matter how clever politicians think they are, the average man on the street can out smart them.
     
  6. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    not really the dealer would be arse raped if the tax man got a old of him

    the coin dealer cut a cheque for 25k which is the sale price of the car. The car dealer never saw this 1500 of face value silver so cant really say he accepted $1500 as payment

    he was give a cheque froma 3rd party for 25k USD

    If this worked I should suggest to my boss to bay me with $1 silver coins so I can be under the tax free threshold and pay zero tax


    I dont see that happening any time soon.
     
  7. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    Is that because of a reason/law? or because that is just what the tax man does (ontology)

    So your argument is it will not work because it has not worked?
     
  8. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    no my argument is that it wont work because it has been tried in the USA ( not here but could not imagine it being very different) and the company was arse raped by the IRS

    Edit for link: http://www.rapidtrends.com/robert-kahre-vs-the-irs-and-doj/
    raped in the bum for paying workers in coins doing a tax dodgy

    and simple logic tells that the person with teh silver made 2 x seperate transactions he SOLD the coins to a coin dealer and bought a car from a car dealer with the proceeds. IF he had given the silver to the dealer directly that would be a different matter but that is NOT what happened here.
     
  9. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    The man is just using the coins as FV as stipulated by the producer of such coins... if I want to use a 1oz kookaburra to buy a mars bar or a house @ FV that is lawful, the only issue seems to be CGT which if the depreciation and loss that the car dealer made selling said car @1.5k maybe offset
     
  10. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    the car dealer did not see that 1.5k of coins though

    he saw a cheque for 25k from a coin dealer.

    and the IRS did not see it that way and no the man in that link if you read it was severley hammered by the IRS for what he did I would not like to take my chances as the gov has unlimited resources to grind anyone down (look at the hell Paul Hogan went through recently )
     
  11. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    Sequence...
    * man put down $.5k fiat dep on $1.5k sale
    * Delivered $1k FV Ag coins to delear making up sale price.
    * dealer banked $.5k fiat and took $1kFV Ag and sold for $25k so 24k in profits needed to pay CGT
    * dealer lost $Xk (depending on purchase price of vehicle) on sale and and can claim as tax offset

    No I am not a tax specialist, but I see nothing wrong with this transaction and is only possible due to debasement of the currency cause be said USG
     
  12. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    you have got ity wrong

    the DEALER that the man gave the 1.5k of silver to was a COIN dealer

    not the CAR dealer

    this is how it went

    * man put down $.5k fiat dep on $25k sale
    * Delivered $1k FV Ag coins to COIN DEALER making up sale price.
    * COIN DEALER makes a 25k cheque PAYABLE to CAR dealer
    * Car dealer never seen touched or otherwise had anythign to do with these coins -- CAR dealer NEVER owned these coins to sell
    * dealer banked $25k fiat
    * dealer made $Xk

    you can cook the books how ever you like no IRS or tax agent will see it any other way, espically since the CAR dealer never had the silver in their possession, it is more transparent that a windshield ofsaid sold car.
     
  13. goldpelican

    goldpelican Administrator Staff Member

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    In Australia I believe it would get treated as a barter transaction, with a nominal value based on the market value of the goods being traded.

    Point is that the DMV has been notified of a false sale value - they've been told an artificial price that's irrelevant. I'm sure that the relevant state would have legislature on how to treat barter purchases, or how to price a vehicle obtained through a barter transaction.

    The face value of the coins is irrelevant - $25k of goods were swapped for $25k of goods, the market value of the transaction is $25k.

    I'm not defending the transfer tax or rights of the state to tax property transfers etc, just pointing out that what these guys did is likely fraud against the DMV, and there's a whole other can of worms as to how the car dealer declares the proceeds from the sales of the coins.

    It wouldn't fly in Australia, otherwise cash-in-hand tradies would just demand payment in $200 Gold Koalas, and pay tax on a third of their value.

    Please try and keep posts family friendly - there a a number of minors on this website, and overuse of profanity gets the website blocked on corporate networks. Found out that Silver Stackers is considered an adult website by T-Mobile California because of forum language last time I was in the US - had to make a declaration to indemnify the carrier from any offence I would take from viewing "mature material" on their network if I wanted to access SS on mobile web.
     
  14. renovator

    renovator Well-Known Member

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    Umm cash in hand tradies wouldnt pay tax on any of it .. :p:
     
  15. Court Jester

    Court Jester Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    my bad :( ill keep it clean. Although I can get on here from my corporate network :)

    and you are right in Australia if you Put down that you purchased a house or car for $1 they will calculate the fair market value on the goods and charge you the duty on that not the $1 you actually paid
     
  16. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    What you are saying is someone had a asset worth $25k sold it and purchased a car... not exactly ZH worthy material
     
  17. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    That is excactly the issue... market value... same could be said for Numi bank notes... what is a 1oz kookaburra worth? IMHO RBA says it is worth 1AUD
     
  18. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    It is the immature material that is offensive surely?!
     
  19. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Just say thatguy wanted to buy my house (lets just assume it was an appreciating asset :p ).. that has been valued for rates purposes at $X...which would attract a sales tax of $15,000.

    Why can't I discount the house to $1...and accept a balance of payment in ..ohh...I dunnoh a few kilos of gold?
    All the Govt is interested in is the Sales Tax component in $ terms.

    thatguy still pays the $15,000 sales tax the govt (somehow) is entitled to.... no one misses out.

    thatguy's metal never gets changed into fiat...what's wrong with that?
     
  20. thatguy

    thatguy Active Member

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    A kilo gold coin has a FV of $3000AUD
     

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