Working and Wages

Discussion in 'Markets & Economies' started by JulieW, May 28, 2015.

  1. JulieW

    JulieW Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    From today's UK Guardian.

    Interesting discussion on wages and society. Rumblings of change begin perhaps?

     
  2. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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  3. mmm....shiney!

    mmm....shiney! Administrator Staff Member Silver Stacker

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    [​IMG]

    :D

    There is nothing stopping a lowly paid child care worker giving up her job that is valuable to society (yet not that valued otherwise they'd get paid more :rolleyes: ) and taking up dog walking. Questions raised around the morality of remuneration often accompany a desire to force the values of those that raise the question onto others.
     
  4. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Back when I got my 1st professional job there was a fax on the wall that read something like this;

    Geologist Truck Driver
    Training; 4yrs University 1 week on job
    Responsibilities the whole mine stay sober
    Consequences Company goes broke flat tyre
    Hours worked 24/7 12hr/day
    Stress levels 100% what's stress?
    Salary $40,000 $80,000
     
  5. bordsilver

    bordsilver Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Whiners.

    Given I happen to have been working with the data this afternoon, according to the ABS, in Australia total hourly rates of pay (excluding bonuses) across all industries have consistently outpaced CPI since 2001 at an average annual rate of 0.81% a year (ie 62% increase in nominal hourly pay compared to a 45% increase in CPI). After tax disposable incomes presumably have risen faster.
     
  6. willrocks

    willrocks Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    They forgot CEO:

    Training; Knowing the right people
    Responsibilities Getting drunk
    Consequences Company goes broke
    Hours worked What work?
    Stress levels What's stress?
    Salary $1,280,000 (+ golden parachute)
     
  7. TheEnd

    TheEnd Well-Known Member

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    Some truck and taxi drivers are working $18 an hour......Somethings not right!!!
     
  8. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Speaking of Golden Parachutes... I've been watching a lot of older workers now being stuck in crummy jobs by what I call "Golden Handcuffs"
    Long Service Leave, Sick Leave, Defined Benefits Super Annuation schemes. They're all tools used by employers to keep workers from leaving.
     
  9. silverbait

    silverbait Active Member Silver Stacker

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    You will be surprised to find out some employers are trying to get rid of older employees by scare tactics so they can resign. Therefore no need to pay them long service leave.
    The company i am talking about is a huge Australian hardware co. (better not to name it for legal reasons)
    Its tough out there and I feel sorry for those...

     
  10. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    In which country? China's average annual wage at 28,000 Yuan (US$4,750.00)? Australian average wage of $79,800.00 per year for a 5 day working week with 4 weeks paid leave with 17.5% loading, 9-11 paid public holidays, superannuation, 10 days paid sick leave, long service leave, penalty rates.

    Someone is not being paid what they are worth but it isn't us.
     
  11. Agnostic

    Agnostic Active Member Silver Stacker

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    I agree with the original article that there are weird disparities between different categories of work.

    But our society is still free enough that someone can re-train, resign, re-tool or change what they do.

    It is not compulsory to stay in your current job.

    I have noticed sometimes people complete their high school, or trade, or degree, and then think that is all done and dusted and they are guaranteed a paycheque for life in whatever that skill was.

    Markets are constantly changing, and we need to change with them, or become irrelevant.

    I just opened a new service offering today within my business, its small but has potential for growth, I did the work myself, just reported back to the client, and later will write a new procedure. Now I am typing this to distract myself from some boring admin work. My staff went home a while ago.
     
  12. ryan71

    ryan71 Member

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    Capitalism is a tough system but it's the best system. Things never seem fair. We could go to a communist system and let some bureaucrat set all the wages. We'd lose all our liberties and most of our freedom. But we'd still have the same problem, those at the top living like kings while the other 99%, upset about the 1%.

    Be careful what you wish for. When the USSR dissolved the Communists did not evaporate into nothing. They've just assumed a new tactic, one that uses media, education and culture instead of missiles.
     
  13. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Yes. Communism = equality in poverty.

    Communism is functionally a tiny 1% who have all of the money and power, beneath them is a massive military, and a massive security and surveillance army. Below that is a large police force and finally below that is everyone else who are all equal in as much as they are equally poor. The police are particularly brutal because that know that if they are not then they will be kicked out and become one of the masses under the boot heel of said police. Anyone who thinks that capitalism is evil is welcome to move to North Korea to escape this evil and to join the heavenly equality of a workers paradise.
     
  14. Clawhammer

    Clawhammer Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Nth Korea, soviet Russia, Southern Africa... even what's happening in Venezuela at the moment. All proof that people will tolerate the intolerable rather than change.

    Millions of people saying... 'arhh, she'll be right soon... at least we're not..."

    They're the problem.
     
  15. -j-p-shmorgan

    -j-p-shmorgan New Member

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    Long live freedom!!!!!
     
  16. SpacePete

    SpacePete Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    No one has mentioned holidays yet. This is another reason for the increasing casualization of the workforce... so that employers don't pay for holidays.

    BTW: Australia has close to the fewest number of public holidays in the world. We have 9, the lowest is 8, and the average is 13 according to this article:

    http://www.onrec.com/news/statistics-and-trends/uk-has-lowest-number-of-public-holidays-within-g20

    I also found a list of statutory leave and public holidays for a number of countries:

    http://www.totallyexpat.memberlodge...Holidayentitlements_Globalcomparisontable.pdf
     
  17. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    I guess the answer is to dramatically raise wages until all of the businesses just give up and close. Then we can dramatically raise the level of welfare payments so everyone can pay their mortgages, credit card payments and school fees while living on the dole. Oh, wait, the last government already tried that.
     
  18. Big A.D.

    Big A.D. Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    What's the United States got to do with this?

    :p
     
  19. Jislizard

    Jislizard Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    Just watched a show on garbage pickers, self employed workers, usually women, in India who go around collecting rubbish bags and rubbish from the streets. They sort through it and anything recyclable they sell, the rest they take to the dump. They can make enough to live on. If they don't work they starve to death. Pretty good incentive to get off your backside.

    In some places the local government has just started a municipal garbage collection service. The women are no longer allowed to collect from the bins. The council workers don't always turn up, don't collect all the waste and take the whole lot to landfill without taking out the recyclables. The women are no longer able to make a 'decent' living out of garbage picking.

    I would rather collect a dole cheque than pick through garbage to make money, as would most other people given the option, but if you aren't given the option, it is amazing what people are capable of doing.

    I saw another show from South America when the whole family went out looking for rocks. That was what they did for a living. They would walk a couple of miles to collect a rock and sell it to people who were building walls. They were hoping to save enough money to be able to afford a wheel barrow so they could collect bigger rocks and earn even more money.
     
  20. Shaddam IV

    Shaddam IV Well-Known Member Silver Stacker

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    And we complain about our problems.....
     

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